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[ Help ] Space time AI useless

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  • Registered: 2017-07-24
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On 2017-05-11 22:45:49Show this Author Only
21#
there's no such thing as debuff priority. This post was last edited by for***@yahoo.com at 2017-5-11 22:48
  • Registered: 2017-07-24
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On 2017-05-12 00:49:35Show this Author Only
22#
It at least for me goes against all logic but placing the ninja you want to go first last on the field actually does work at least it has for me. Doesn't seem to make sense but it does work.
  • Registered: 2017-07-24
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On 2017-05-17 01:34:43Show this Author Only
23#
For me the problem isn't who waste's their mystery, although it is an issue, but for me it has always been that my characters waste their mysteries on the WRONG freaking ninja, every single time!
Ex: Oh both Sage naruto's are using their mysteries, I have the faster initiative and I have an interrupt with the combo, Oh look Naruto decided to waste it on that Iruka that isn't doing anything and he avoided it, GG.
This bugs me to no end as it ruins the match because my ninja places priority on someone with an interrupt when they already used their interrupt, just wish the A.I. had a little bit of better priority. :@
  • Registered: 2017-07-24
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On 2017-05-17 03:45:49Show this Author Only
24#
  • On 2017-05-10 10:42:04
  • There are a bunch of consistant rules on how the autobattle AI uses skills. First of all, position/initiative doesn't seem to matter at all. What matters is the chakra cost of the mystery, the order the ninjas were placed/moved, and some special conditions like interrupt/heal skills. The order the ninjas are placed is changed whenever you add a ninja or move a ninja. Adding or moving a ninja puts them at the end of the order. So for example, if you add Naruto, Sasuke, and Sakura to your team in that order, you ninja order will be Main -> Naruto -> Sasuke ->Sakura. If you then move Naruto to another spot (or move him and then move him back if you want to change your order but keep the same formation), your new order will be Main -> Sasuke ->Sakura -> Naruto. This order is also the order the ninjas will do their start of combat effects, like clones and shields/buffs, which is important if youre trying to get certain clone setups or have shields hit clones.

    Mysteries get cast by the AI using this priority:
    1. Chakra cost (high -> low)
    2. If skills with the same chakra cost can be used, they will be used in reverse ninja order

    These are the general rules for most mysteries. Interrupt mysteries behave differently. It will save chakra for them initially (didn't do enough testing to figure out exactly how long it'll wait, but it seems to usually be around when move 2 starts/ends) and use them at the highest priority if the enemy uses a skill. Otherwise they will be used at the lowest priority. So roughly:

    0. Interrupt skill (if the enemy is using a mystery)
    1. Chakra cost (high -> low)
    2. If skills with the same chakra cost can be used, they will be used in reverse ninja order
    3. Interrupt skill (if the enemy is not using a mystery)

    Support skills (heals, revives, etc.) will be cast when they will do something (not sure on priority). This is a pretty general description of how they work, but it's enough for most lineups that just want mysteries cast in a certain order.

    If you post your team and say what you're trying to accomplish mystery-wise, I can probably figure out how to make that happen. If it's just having your pos 1 cast it's mystery instead of your pos 4, just move your pos 1 to another space and move it back (to put it at the end of the ninja order).

    EDIT: Also want to echo the above comments that there are a lot of small nuances that may cause skill to go off not in this order, this was just a very general order (mostly for damage skills).

    EDIT 2: Fixed a big typo - chakra cost is high -> low, not low -> high
    This post was last edited by cra***@gmail.com at 2017-5-10 11:00
So based on this post, there is no way to get Inner Gates Lee and Crimson Fist to work together? Better yet, if your main has a mystery with the same chakra as another ninja, will the other ninja always get priority due to the 'reverse' order?

Super Lightened Boulder Justsu for double standards is 40 chakra as is Inner Gates Lee's Leaf Hurricane is also 40 chakra. Since you cannot replace your main, it will always go in reverse order due to them both being 40 chakra and cast Lee round 1, correct?

For the poster above me, I believe whenever Auto is used, they tend to go for the target with the lowest amount of health. There is no perfect way to counter this unless you're able to land standards on the ninja you want to focus so they're the lowest. Using standards that deal damage to multiple ninjas can help, especially if they're using a tank.
This post was last edited by Bojangle at 2017-5-17 03:51
  • Registered: 2017-07-24
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On 2017-05-17 03:49:20Show this Author Only
25#
  • Bojangle On 2017-05-17 03:45:49
  • So based on this post, there is no way to get Inner Gates Lee and Crimson Fist to work together? Better yet, if your main has a mystery with the same chakra as another ninja, will the other ninja always get priority due to the 'reverse' order?

    Super Lightened Boulder Justsu for double standards is 40 chakra as is Inner Gates Lee's Leaf Hurricane is also 40 chakra. Since you cannot replace your main, it will always go in reverse order due to them both being 40 chakra and cast Lee round 1, correct?

    For the poster above me, I believe whenever Auto is used, they tend to go for the target with the lowest amount of health. There is no perfect way to counter this unless you're able to land standards on the ninja you want to focus so they're the lowest. Using standards that deal damage to multiple ninjas can help, especially if they're using a tank.
    This post was last edited by Bojangle at 2017-5-17 03:51
No, because while you can't replace your main, you can move it. And if you move a character, it will be considered as the last to be placed.
  • Registered: 2017-07-24
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On 2017-05-17 03:52:33Show this Author Only
26#
  • PraiseLuka On 2017-05-17 03:49:20
  • No, because while you can't replace your main, you can move it. And if you move a character, it will be considered as the last to be placed.
Oh! Well let me go test that then, thank you very much! Since I can't 'remove' them, I tend to place my main first and would have never noticed this.
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On 2017-05-17 17:13:54Show this Author Only
27#
  • PraiseLuka On 2017-05-17 03:49:20
  • No, because while you can't replace your main, you can move it. And if you move a character, it will be considered as the last to be placed.
well in normal auto, if you wanted a ninja to get a buff applied and to go first , all one had to do was drop that ninja first...
in spacetime you can't do that(or i dont know how to) as theone to get a buff should be dropped first and the one to skill has to be dropped last (provided that skill is using the highest chakra and other ninjas dont have a BCD=0 skill that costs not more than 40c).

so yeah, its BS :D
  • Registered: 2017-07-24
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On 2017-05-17 17:34:28Show this Author Only
28#
I don't know but what i know for sure is that my mei is placed after tenten gnw but if, for any reason, on round 3 mei still have to cast her mystery (because mabui wasn't able to give her the previous round the chakra) she is the one that uses her mystery in tenten place. Doesn't matter where she is placed on the battlefield nor the order of placement. Her mystery gets priority over gnw tenten one. And there could be only two reasons to explain this: 1) mei's one adds ignition debuff or 2) mei's one could hit targets even in other lineups in comparison with gnw tenten's that can hit only one lineup. I think the ai is scripted in the latter way because the ai the program runs was made for ranked battles/tis/wanteds and just reused for spacetime.
  • Registered: 2017-07-24
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On 2017-05-18 03:14:45Show this Author Only
29#
  • Zelgadis~ On 2017-05-17 17:34:28
  • I don't know but what i know for sure is that my mei is placed after tenten gnw but if, for any reason, on round 3 mei still have to cast her mystery (because mabui wasn't able to give her the previous round the chakra) she is the one that uses her mystery in tenten place. Doesn't matter where she is placed on the battlefield nor the order of placement. Her mystery gets priority over gnw tenten one. And there could be only two reasons to explain this: 1) mei's one adds ignition debuff or 2) mei's one could hit targets even in other lineups in comparison with gnw tenten's that can hit only one lineup. I think the ai is scripted in the latter way because the ai the program runs was made for ranked battles/tis/wanteds and just reused for spacetime.
The placement thing is only applied if there is a tie between the priority of the jutsu.
From what I understand, Mei's mystery have a higher priority than GNW tenten's against multiple target (for some reason, GNW tenten's jutsu is considered as a single target I think for the purpose of jutsu priority)

I mean you KNOW that interrupt happens before others, 60 before 40(if possible) etc regardless of placement, right? Well, this is like that... except not as clearly "labeled", there are priorities, and placement are only the tie breaker.
  • Registered: 2017-07-24
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On 2017-05-18 03:19:19Show this Author Only
30#
  • Lvl14RuneStone On 2017-05-17 17:13:54
  • well in normal auto, if you wanted a ninja to get a buff applied and to go first , all one had to do was drop that ninja first...
    in spacetime you can't do that(or i dont know how to) as theone to get a buff should be dropped first and the one to skill has to be dropped last (provided that skill is using the highest chakra and other ninjas dont have a BCD=0 skill that costs not more than 40c).

    so yeah, its BS :D
The fact that you would take your regular team and expect it to work in a quite different battle mechanic is BS.

Space time is a battle with a different set of "rules" due to the difference in battle mechanic, you should adjust your teams accordingly. For example, if there was a feature where there are battles on the weekdays with each day of the week providing a 500% boost to damage and hp to character of a different element except the main, where the main is always boosted, would you still take your standard PvP team into that feature? I would guess not, you would probably compose a team that is "of the element" each day for it. Space time is similar, thou less extreme. You got different mechanics and rules, as long as the rules and mechanic are clearly defined and known (not fully the case here, but we have figured most out) so that you CAN make an as-optimized-as-possible team just for it and that the same applies to all players, then it's fair and fine.

If you are unwilling to adapt and fail as a result, you can't blame anyone but yourself.
PS: I'm a wind main so for many of my teams, I have to do clone management to place clones/summons/puppets into the right place. So I know the pain that comes with it, I live with it because that's part of the mechanic.
This post was last edited by PraiseLuka at 2017-5-17 11:20
  • Registered: 2017-07-24
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On 2017-05-25 20:41:02Show this Author Only
31#
  • PraiseLuka On 2017-05-18 03:19:19
  • The fact that you would take your regular team and expect it to work in a quite different battle mechanic is BS.

    Space time is a battle with a different set of "rules" due to the difference in battle mechanic, you should adjust your teams accordingly. For example, if there was a feature where there are battles on the weekdays with each day of the week providing a 500% boost to damage and hp to character of a different element except the main, where the main is always boosted, would you still take your standard PvP team into that feature? I would guess not, you would probably compose a team that is "of the element" each day for it. Space time is similar, thou less extreme. You got different mechanics and rules, as long as the rules and mechanic are clearly defined and known (not fully the case here, but we have figured most out) so that you CAN make an as-optimized-as-possible team just for it and that the same applies to all players, then it's fair and fine.

    If you are unwilling to adapt and fail as a result, you can't blame anyone but yourself.
    PS: I'm a wind main so for many of my teams, I have to do clone management to place clones/summons/puppets into the right place. So I know the pain that comes with it, I live with it because that's part of the mechanic.
    This post was last edited by PraiseLuka at 2017-5-17 11:20
you assume a lot of things.. i am talking about the initial findings that spacetime auto is BS compared to normal auto. it was at a time when things were not mentioned anywhere.. and well it still isn't. i now know how this dumb thing works and not a fancy thing to me, i have left it as i have for ranked matches and arena. i dt have the time to do all this tbh. so yeah enjoy spacetime , cheers !!
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