and obviously summons take battling up a notch.
which we won't use.
edits:

i'll add more input on your points here KenR.

that lineup isn't built to kill in 2 turns.
it's built to disrupt and setup for 4th round engages. 3rd round if RNGesus kicks in, but i wont factor that.

Death Mirage being unreliable means misleading texts. which is what i'm basing my data off of. regardless of which, DM not checking for debuff means it needs a bugfix asap, but that's another discussion.

something about my theory team failing when you're incorporating summons into the equation. and the lack of ignite bonus damage. please, get off your high horse. it's built for the 4th round engage.

the first 3 rounds literally locks the opponent out.
but speed tiers aren't my forte. so we'll assume fastest reactions for my FM lineup to counter. because that's what it was theorycrafted for. locking down the opponent.

and yes, Auto battle needs to be smarter.
and if your whole debate is the usage of summons, mainly that of the white snake.

im pretty sure FM Dragon BReath -> GaaraGWN chase still works and lands an immobile.
GaaraGWN mystery -> NejiGWN chase lands acupuncture.

still within 5 hits.
unless of course you provide me data otherwise.

=====

can you please discuss FMs Mirror Return and the changes i suggested for it and not derail my question with all this nonsense?
legit no one has even bothered to discuss the changes i proposed.

literally jumps straight into battle mechanics, formations, 'git gud', etc.

as far as i'm concerned. this is just another off-topic post.
This post was last edited by ch3***@gmail.com at 2016-10-25 16:50

Round 2.
if death mirage manages to land me chakra regain.
it's automatic GG.

Gaara and Neji mystery.
Neji will interrupt Naruto/Kakashi and the Gaara will aim for WaM.


When's that gonna happen? Your FM is at move 4, Death Mirage only activates when he makes an action, any initiator on move2 or 3 can outspeed that.

R3.
Gaara and Neji mystery down.

If you're using GNW Neji his mystery has a 3 round CD.

and obviously summons take battling up a notch.

which we won't use.

With no summon the only time ignite is applied is if someone attacks Naruto(9Tails), he attacks, or if he uses his mystery. He is at move 3, the next one to move is only your FM and they are not in the same lane, how will it take advantage of the damage boost from ignition exactly?

your Hinata's acupuncture gets reflect back at your team

Huh? If he used Naruto the 1st debuff you'd be taking is a poison, If he used Kakashi the 1st debuff you'd take is also poison. That acupuncture will go thorugh no matter what. along with an immobile rendering you unable to take any action ergo no Death Mirage ergo no cleansing.

and if WaM is already low enough from the previous encounter. she's dead this round

And why is that? By the end of the round she'll be cleansing that ignite from her standard heal. You're assuming the damage output from that Gaara combo can actually kill?

You're making silly assumptions all throughout this thread huh? And you don't even realize it, and you wonder why people keep on putting you down?

This post was last edited by KenR at 2016-10-25 16:54

i theorize because no one likes to provide legitimate facts.

hell. it's been off-topic since page one.

anyone even bothered to answer my question and help discuss why or why not my proposed changes should or should not happen?!

nope.

they all started comparing it to other mains sayin LMs have RoW, EMs have Bond, WdMs have Dance.

seriously?

the topic is about FMs Mirror Return. and how overloaded it is.
i've already compared FMs Mirror to other mains skills.
apparently that's also been overlooked.

so, should i start spouting future chinese updates about the removal of attack buff from FMs Mirror?!?

i wonder why they removed it without any conpensation. hmm, something must be up. maybe because it's

again. * to topic please.

can you please discuss FMs Mirror Return and the changes i suggested for it and not derail my question with all this nonsense?

What gave you the idea that it's overloaded?? You tried to "prove" it's overloadedness by bringing up that "theorycrafted" team. And when we scrutinized that team you say "we aren't talking about battle machanics here". Thing is, you haven't proven why it's overloaded in the first place!

It can reflect 1 debuff, what about it? I can trigger it by inflicting a "bait" debuff like poison then inflicting my desired debuff, like acu.

It boosts damage to ignited enemies? Only works when the enemy is ignited at the start of the combo. On your theory team the one doing that is 9Tailed Naruto with it's mystery causing ignition and repulse but wait, there's no one in that lineup that chases repulse do they?

anyone even bothered to answer my question and help discuss why or why not my proposed changes should or should not happen?!

You even asked why?? Because it's silly that's why!

This post was last edited by KenR at 2016-10-25 17:06

i have.

Debuff reflect, debuff cleanse, damage buff.

the debuff reflect alone is great on a passive.
but a cleanse?!
AND A DAMAGE BUFF>!

wow. imagine if EMs get the benefit of first turn immortality ALONG with Bonds.

that's what FMs Mirror Return is.

you get to cut the cake. and eat it.

WaMs cant have Neuro AND Healing Jutsu.
but FMs can have a debuff cleanse, debuff reflect, AND damage buff in one skill?! SIGN ME UP!

if you use anything else. you're gimping yourself as a FM.
i can see the other passives being good for World Boss. but still. ekkei giving 40% while generic elemental gives 50% makes me question again why you would run anything other than the overloaded MR.

please. if you're going to edit something new. just repost. so i can requote.

feedback to Naruto's repulse.
not everything is about combos O.O

hell generic 2* Kankuro doesnt have a chase. still reks in a poison setup till his skill set ups in power. but this is off-topic. so i'm ending this discussion here.

and if you're gonna say something about LMs RoW.

please. refer to the OP. i legit started off the whole discussion with it.

Debuff reflect, debuff cleanse, damage buff.

the debuff reflect alone is great on a passive.
but a cleanse?!
AND A DAMAGE BUFF>!

And just what is so overloaded about it??? A debuff reflect that can be baited, an RNG cleanser, and a damage boost that has to be set up. What is so broken about it???

feedback to Naruto's repulse.
not everything is about combos O.O

Then how can it take advantage of the Mirror Return damage boost??? How can it kill that WaM on Round4???

ok. i'll spill the beans before your epeen explodes.

=====

you simply bait it. with the likes of Karin. or hell, even Kankuro.

you've already destroyed part of FMs Mirror.
and without ignite. it's even more useless.
the only benefit would be the cleanse.

which then means FMs are gimped because Karin and generic Kankuro exists.
which then means that maybe Mirror Return needs a change. a nerf? a buff? both?

hence the ideas i've pointed out in the OP.
===
of course. if you had just pointed that out instead of me. i would of been impressed. gave you a like. and pinned you up to the first page.

but you had to make me spill the beans? ok child, open wide. i'm shoving a silver s* into your mouth.
we can't discuss if i just give you the answers.

HUH?! What is this a troll? People have been saying that exact solution all throughout this thread.

What is wrong with this guy.....

ignite ticks.
ignite baits heals.

whether you cleanse it or not. it's adding extra hidden power.
if you don't cleanse it. that unit becomes a possible kill.

the ignite literally means that FMs are now in the initiative of the matchup, and you end up playing around the FMs next move.

in terms of sports and gaming in general. you never want to be following your opponents lead.

hence,
having the damage buff on Mirror simply adds unnecessary power.

====

god. i need to quit giving you answers and have you figure it out yourselves.
this has become be giving you overlords answers you've never even care to think of when you're so busy polishing your epeens.

So basically you made a silly assumption of a skillset, then added a ridiculous team in an attempt to support your premise, made a battle simulation that defies common sense, failed to prove anything, and in the end said "Hey! I have the solution to the problem all this time!"

Idiot of the Week Award, you got it.

so what if they did.

if you asked a 6 year old what 2+2 is.

and they answer 4?
it's wrong.

but if they answered 4.
they are correct.

======

whats been happening is. all the posts dont go in-depth.

they simply say, ok i counter Mirror with this.
your move.

and so i reply back asking for more information. more concrete information.

look through the thread yourself. then post me a link to a post that doesnt ask me what my next reply is.
one where they give me the answer.
and concrete data of why that's the answer.

and no. Karin and Kankuro aren't the one pick end all FM ninjas. they just make FMs easier to deal with.
but no, they feed me unnecessary future ninja updates that's not related to the game in its current form

which i've stated, yet again, in the OP.

im after a conclusion.
a solution isnt gonna cut the cake.

epeen overlords are quite strong in you.

A Conclusion? You made a ridiculous thread, like all the others we usually see here.

that;s it?

i proposed a change in skills in the OP

also listed with a bit more depth here:

http://forum.naruto.oasgames.com/en/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=7285&pid=43084&fromuid=129100

and yet. nothing about said skill changes/swaps were ever mentiond by anyone other than i.


/thread
gonna get a mod to close this down. you guys are no longer worth discussing with.

Only thing I never understood about the Mirror from Fire Mains was that it also gives the whole field (on your side) +damage to anyone ignited. As stated above, other classes buff ninja that fit a requirement (sharing an attribute such as Lighting/Fire, or Gender, or Sword Wielder), the loosest I can think of being Earth Main's that can buff ninja on His team that have over %50 life. You can copy almost everything Mains give you (Mirror is on a few ninja, Guy gives Leech, Ao and others give shields to those that share Water or the same type. There are ninja that buff ninja that share elements with them, some that set up barriers to increase them further. Even Kage Gaara will shield one or two Earth/Wind ninja each turn), but to my knowledge no other ninja makes targets take more damage from enemy ninja as long as they are under a debuff.

Closest I can think of would be Shizune, who's passive "increases damage of debuffs to enemies who are suffering from them", but that is it. And not only does the Fire Main have such a passive, but it is attached to Mirror, which in and of its self is a good passive on its own. If it were something that effected the FM's team, I wouldn't be confused (like his team dealing more damage from members who are debuffed, or something), but the current one just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

I should point out that I'm not complaining about the class it's self, or saying they Need to nerf/change his passive, I'm just giving reasons why I could see it being done to mesh with more of what we see on other mains/ninja that can off set what mains do. I've always seen Mains not so much as unique/special ninja with their own unique skills, as much as special ninja that have a combination of skills found on other ninja, in one place. Most fit that build (as explained above), this Fire Main passive doesn't.

As far as Death Mirage goes, even though it would sound like a unique skill, it really isn't. yes you get get chakra for removing said debuff (not even that much), but it is random at best, and any good healer/debuff remover will remove the same/more debuffs as a standard action. So I don't see a problem with this one at all, even with the Mirror, if that were all it did.

TL: DR - It is what it is. Mirror is fine, ignite buff I don't understand. If they remove it/change it so it fits with other mains, great. If not, oh well, just get used to taking increased damage from Fire Mains, or run a debuffer. And there is nothing wrong with Death Mirage as it is RNG, and most healing ninja remove just as much, if not more debuffs as standard. This post was last edited by Maroner at 2016-10-25 18:13

only a matter of time before a mod comes to close this thread.

but looks like you've captured the initial change i suggested with Mirror.
little late now tho. i would of loved to discuss how we can further improve Mirror, which in turns improve Fire Mains.

I like/see where you are going with trying to brain storm with people about issues you see with things in the game. But I would say you may have the wrong mind set. Fire Mains don't need to be improved, they have their place like the other 4 Main Characters. If they changed what they currently do (atleast in the way I was talking), it couldn't really be anything other then a nerf. I like that all the mains feel unique in their own way. Yes, some of the skills/passive they have are the same as others (buff to ninja that share their element), but other then that they have their own feel. Earth is of course the tank, and makes his whole team tanky. Water mains may not be tanky like the Earth teams, but they are they last very well with their heals, and do very good DOT damage. Wind creates a lone wall like nothing else, and is good for high burst teams. Lighting is top of Taijutsu/Physical damage, and targeting/clearing the field of low life enemies. And then last you have the Fire Mains, who I would say rule control type play style with high Ninjutsu damage output.

Anyways, I wouldn't come into it thinking so much that the class needs to be "improved" as much as trying to understand what it does. I may lack the understanding on how the Mirror falls inline with the other skills, but I don't feel it is broken.