i cant even This post was last edited by ch3***@gmail.com at 2016-10-24 00:12

instructions unclear

can still dream T.T
i mean, there's legit 20~ until they hit 200 servers.

no one must of cared enough. :\

i figured the 'pure' set builds would clarify this.

and also as what Belerephon stated.
FM's Mirror Return is like having the pie and eating it.

imagine if WM's c*e her strong heals coupled with immobile. that's what FM's have right now. the ability to immunize a debuff and send it right back to your team.

i rolled EM. just cuz i figured i can co-play as a pseudo-Rock Lee with the Lotus.
turns out FMs are literally not allowing me to CC. even worse if they have access to a Gaara. or Naruto. or both T.T

tell me.

FM, Gaara GWN, Naruto, Neji 2*

what are you gonna do if you can't even hit that backline?
Neji locks you out from ever casting a jutsu.
FM backline dragon breaths.

all the meanwhile Naruto and Gaara beefing up.

and no, you can't use a FM against this team setup.
otherwise you further prove the point that Mirror Return indeed needs to get looked at.

Sasuke. in your LM scenario.
meaning, there are opportunities for the paralyze status to be inflicted on said FM team. meaning, via Mirror Return. that paralyze (aka para), has a chance to get inflicted on Sasuke. hence RNGesus.

also stated. Death Mirage isnt what i'm talking about here. legit first 2 lines of wording in the OP.

"As it stands Genjutsu - Mirror Return, is borderline broken.
gets even better once you unlock Death Mirage. "

legit. strictly speaking of, only, and about. Mirror Return.
Death Mirage was added because it further boosts the debuff cleansing, something only Death Mirage should be able to do. of course, it's all in the "suggested change" section if you've even read that far.

and yes. Gaara and Naruto.
sure, they are great in all teams. but we can agree that on a FM team. those 2 are at their strongest. they can't get debuff'd. if they do it's cleansed. and interupts?! that's where Neji comes in. He's the hero. placed in the first ranked slot. He gets priority. He also has a prompt. He, my friend. is what makes the suggest core FM team i listed so strong. why? because yet again. Mirror Return

not Death Mirage. Mirror Return
edit:
x-FM-Neji
x-x-Gaara/Naruto
x-x-Gaara/Naruto

if i'm understanding speed tiers, turn orders, battle progressions, or whatever it's called correctly. then Neji is in the first ranked slot. the fastest place to be. the first to move.

now, if you're gonna use reaction timings to corelate the relevance of battle mechanics.
you should assume the best possible situation.

in any situation, Neji will get his mystery off and stop the opposing team from doing anything. of course, you'll aim for priority jutsu's to cancel. stuff that leads into combos. such as Giant Rasengen. anything else is practically irrelevant.

and those are just the first 2 turns.

because Dear God,
if you didn't do anything against that FM lineup, prepare for Gaara takedowns. why? because ignited foes take more damage. why? because Mirror Return. oh and also Neji's mystery is back up and ready. hope you're ready again.
This post was last edited by ch3***@gmail.com at 2016-10-24 04:04 This post was last edited by ch3***@gmail.com at 2016-10-24 04:07

so what you're telling me is.

you didn't look at the suggested change and continued to reply because you believe i'm a scrublord. amirite?

FM. Gaara GWN. Naruto. Neji 2*/
please. help me beat that team.
that's not using another FM team.
or game mechanics messing up cast times.

didn't know death mirage puts u behind in the speed tier.
figured passives, prompts, formation placements. in that order.

like the scrublord i am, what i need are sources.
links to how battle mechanics work. mainly who goes first. aside from the prompts taking priority. and formation placements.

what else factors in?

the battle mechanics could use a few touches tho. playing manual and trying to interupt the enemy legit relies on pre-spamming your skills and pray it registers in time. that along with selecting your targets. it's rough.

at least give 1s T.T

but please, provide factual proofs. something scrublords like i, can go and read for ourselves.
stuff like LMs are the kings of killing FMs are opinions. even though i agree with it.

convince me why Mirror Return should not change.
convince me how FM, Gaara GWN, Naruto, 2* Neji can be beat.
then you therefore admit that it's the strongest lineup in the game.

and i don't believe that. so please.

give me an opposing team, THAT's NOT A FM LINEUP, that can win against my listed FM lineup.
go ahead and be creative. just listing a lineup so i can compare would be great.

and don't go giving me RNGesus BS. Mirror Return doesn't need to magically reflect into the right targets. the part is bound to happen. so what? both sides pray equally for RNGesus to be in their favor. but it's tilted in FM's favor it's ridiculous via

outspeeding Neji? like how is that even possible, please explain.
and besides, who aside from EMs, would put a disruptor in their first ranked slot?! as far as i'm concern'd the only reliable tanky disruptor capable of filling that slot is Neji.

so.
bring up a lineup capable of dealing with my theorycrafted FM lineup.
remember, you can't use a FM. that defeats the purpose of this threads actual debate. Mirror Return
edit: bolds for added effect.
This post was last edited by ch3***@gmail.com at 2016-10-24 06:18

yes. yes. i'm waiting for updates.
but until then, i want all high nobles to teach scrublords like me how to play.

legit Mirror Return needs some of my suggested changes. that would make them more enjoyable to fight against.

ty Fleece.
so from what i've gather'd and already had on mind.


-
LM vs FM
did not realize it was a legit passive on LMs. that's awesome. even better because it's strictly limited to sword-based ninja's. broken? as an enemy, everything is broken. but as an LM user. hardly so because it's limited to using Sasuke. and it makes great usage of that fact.
-
WaMs vs FMs
kek, water > fire. pokemon logic.
i would assume in this matchup the FM would use it's FM specialty ignition that lowers healing done. (i believe it's exclusive to just FM? or could it be all ignite in general?!) FMs will have their work cut out for them here.
-
EM vs FM
EMs atleast has interrupt. i'd run that over the shield vs FMs. it'll give them the early game edge. even more so if they have another form of for the 2nd round 40 chakra onslaughts. after that it's just a matter of controlling who to and whatnot.
-
WdM vs FM
WMs definitely have their work cut out for them. as you stated, it's a legitimate RNG game here. least WMs clones are awesome. and 10-hit combos.
-

again. thanks for clarifying why LMs legitimately wreck multiple levels of plays via whatever the skill was called. still doesn't stop so in my ideal FM setup, i'd swap Neji out for someone with an similar to that of EMs. to which i have no idea who even has access to such a mystery.

====

now that all that's out of the way.
the real issue here is still the overloaded BS utility that has.
it's the legitimate, pick it or lose, passive for all FMs. just because the other 2 passive slots are lackluster.
Fire-Attribute ninja buff and Ekkei-based ninja buff. both of which are weak compared to Mirror Return's .

to which i proposed:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"

you folks are legit missing the whole point here.

THIS IS NOT A FM IS OP MUST NERF THREAD.

THIS IS NOT A LINEUP HELP THREAD.

THIS IS NOT A BATTLE MECHANICS THREAD.

this is a thread talking about what we can change with Mirror Return.and in extension, make FMs feel more like the other mains.

ex:

EMs has 2 very clear cut styles, tank set. or damage set. YOU CANT ENJOY THE BEST OF BOTH WORLDS. (like having the steel body passive along with random ally crit up + attack)

WaMs. Healing. or Damage/Immobile. again, DONT GET THE BEST OF BOTH WORLDS. (if you rolled Neurotoxin, that means you don't get to use Healing up passive)

WdMs. are u a Raseng*er. or a Dance user?! again. same phrase. imagine if WdMs can have the CDr effect of Dance while running Rasengan, that's exactly what FMs is. he gets a strong debuff passive, coupled with a powerful damage boost passive.

as it is now, FMs get to enjoy the best of both worlds. and the reason because of that is because of how works.

==========

from the first post on 4th page going down:

ronald: you legit just told me to use a Mirror Return vs another Mirror Return, further proving my point in this thread that Mirror Return needs to get addressed. thanks for a suggesting what's been suggested thus far. .it's legit the single most annoying skill to play around. and on a FM at that. just review my theorycrafted FM lineup. Mirror Return legit breaks that comp. and you can't use Mirror Return against it in a counter-team setup. why? obvious reasons.

Kouka: BS dream team!? what are you on spouting 'they dont exist yet'.
it's a theorycrafted team. a dream team. a possible team in the future. that's what a 'dream team' is.

and when they do, and they will be released. it legit becomes the strongest FM team i can think you. that means, eventually down in the future you WILL face that lineup fully maxed out with your choice of a maxed out team.

thanks for providing legitimate data.irrelevant to the actual initial discussion. but thanks anyways. if you have access to GWN-Neji. provide me that data. otherwise my theorycrafted lineup will still be the best. in terms of accessibility and power off the bat.

i am naive indeed. that's not the issue here. but i must be,because the issue here is the majority of posts here are posting off-topic and assuming this discussion is 'nerf FM'.
when it's actually about .
if you read what i posted.

looks like you edited your post.

ty for finally providing legitimate Mirror Return data.
removal of atk buff in the future is a great step.
but it then becomes an overall nerf to FM. which we can discuss another time as that's off-topic.

so what if Tobi gets nerfed?!
it just means he's too strong as he is now.

just like how Mirror Return is gonna get atk removed in the future.
it was deemed, overloaded with too much utility on top of it being a damage buff.

but honestly. just legit post. "future updates"
and provide a link of some sort. we didnt need to legit travel 4 pages almost 5 just to reach this conclusion.

Kouka please.

quit editing your post and just post a new one so we can discuss further.
i'm legit re-reading through all the BS off-topic nonsense that's floating in my thread to see if i can clarify why everyone is obsessed that this is a 'nerf FM' rant.

i dont need help organizing a legit team, that stuff is childs play.
actually getting the ninja's, is a different story and totally off-topic.

but if i ever face my theorycrafted FM lineup.

i will be dumbfounded and know not what to do. besides pray RNGesus works in my favor.
why?

as stated.
the current state of FMs Mirror is overloaded. it;s literally a team-wide damage buff.

x-FM-NejiGWN
x-x-GaaraGWN
x-x-Naruto

there's literally nothing that can beat this team, bar RNGesus standard attacks -> R1 and kills Neji.

if that's the case. you can be a level 1 Karin. and beat everyone 1v4, because RNGesus allowed you to substitute jutsu if they don't run a 'cant be dodged' skill/attack.

the only real issue would be how battle mechanics worked.

wrong discussion bud.

we assume maxed stats.
arena stats.

power levels are a crutch and shouldn't be used.
RNGesus standard attacks -> combo are not allowed.

and both Neji and Gaara outspeeds your whole lineup. unless i'm misreading speed tiers wrong.
there's no way Naruto and Kakashi will be able to use their mystery's cleanly.

between Gaara and Neji. and mystery CDs. you'll be facing attacks from Gaara and Neji. and a lockdown from casting offensive mystery's.

Round 2.
if death mirage manages to land me chakra regain.
it's automatic GG.

Gaara and Neji mystery.
Neji will interrupt Naruto/Kakashi and the Gaara will aim for WaM.

regardless of which, you now have 2 units acupunctured. and WaM is immobiled via chase combos from GaaraGWN.

R3.
Gaara and Neji mystery down.
and you lose either Kakashi or Naruto. whichever was used previously.

chances are high you'll use Kakashi or Naruto to trigger mystery -> chase combos.

regardless of who it's used on. i'll let it slide. because WaM is my real concern.
your Hinata's acupuncture gets reflect back at your team. it's irrelevant who it lands on.

and if WaM is already low enough from the previous encounter. she's dead this round.
she won't be able to jutsu either.

according to speed tiers. FM should be quicker, and there capable of landing his mystery -> chase combo = more lockdown.

4th round.
your WaM is consider'd dead. via Naruto mystery. coupled with the ignite inflicted by FM from earlier.

and that's match point right there.
my theory team wins.

====

unless we factor in RNGesus combo procs. but we won't, because RNGesus is unreliable in theorycrafting concrete situations.

i can't even.

go read the first post.
i legit compared each Main.