as an added note.
You're assuming that i said Mirror + Mirage = legit broken.

no. just, no.

i stated,
Mirror . when you get access to Mirage.

Legit first 2 sentence in the OP.

Okay dra, first of all, you absolutely NEVER mentioned you're using GNW Gaara (which where exactly do you intend to get him), a 9 tails Naruto (also not f2p), and GNW Neji (which you act like is a god, when I can easily take him down second turn). On top of all that, you've got my formation wrong to boot.
And to add to that, I'm not an idiot, you're not cancelling my animal path, because I'm not using her until the very end of the first round. And even if you've used Neji on her, the next second I'm using my heal on her as well, clearing that debuff.
But since we're playing dream team scenario, let's say my Sailor Sakura is fully upgraded along with my Gakido. You're not putting any debuffs on me, and if you are it's because I've done something *.

Fire main is even better on CN, but still doesn't need a nerf.

Question: Why are you so adamant on changing FM's Mirror Return? Why do you need to "make FMs feel more like the other mains". If they were made to have a different play style what about it? What's the problem if "FMs get to enjoy the best of both worlds. and the reason because of that is because of how works". In essence LM's Root of Warrior also lets them "enjoy the best of both worlds". Should I make a thread lambasting Root now? WindM's Harem Jutsu prevents 1 enemy form doing a standard action while simultaneously lowering it's Res. Maybe we should change that too!

What's your real reason that you made this thread?

Ok, lets be honest. May be you think that he is broken because you maybe you use LM. But i will tell you something, before Death Mirage, i lose every time against LM, because that Mystery that paralize and entire team is amazing, i lose every time against LM, and finally in level 55 Death Mirage was my savior, now i have chance. And still many people prefer the stupd clon. At this moment i hate fight against EM because the shield is based of resistence, so my ninjutsus do almost nothing of damage, and they do not depend of debuffs. That´s how the game works,that´s how is balanced, there is no an invincible main character, each one has a bad match or nemesis. Is not until all skills are unlock that we reliaze that. And just wait for water has their support. Whta you need is a better strategy that´s all. This post was last edited by hil***@gmail.com at 2016-10-25 10:35

I use FM, i know it will be a weak character in the future, it is a weak character i my server matter fact, and you are TOTALLY RIGHT. But some peolple can not see the big picture, can not see the strategies, only cares about and easy win.

LMs RoW is limited to using sword-based ninja's if they want to enjoy the .

FM's Mirror? that's universal. sword, cursed, ekkei, everyone can enjoy a free debuff protection.

the real reason you ask?

FM's Mirror Return is overloaded with utility and a extremely potent damage boost. that's not restricted aside from it activating once per round.

which already means 2 or even 3 rounds before you will be able to inflict status to FM's lineup,

which is fine.
but to add more insult. it's also a damage boost. on ignited units.
THAT WORKS FOR HIS WHOLE TEAM.

LMs RoW? only sword-based ninjas. restricted.


=

apparently i've received word-to-word data that may or may not be reliable that states FM's Mirror gets nerfed in China. damage bonus removed.

so? before even knowing that. i creating this thread.
now i want to know WHY China removed the damage buff. but that's for another topic.

this thread is clearing restricted to talking about FM's current Mirror that we have here.
and why are we not making changes to it yet. and no, i'm not saying that because China has done it, we should do it too.

i'm saying that currently.
at this moment.
FM's Mirror.
is legit overloaded.
why?

and therefore i proposed a change by swapping the skills overloaded kit around thats noted in the OP.

please.
i've stated it over and over in this thread.

don't discuss with me about formations and strats. this isnt the Strategy forum.

what i've been trying to do is start a civilized discussion on why FM's Mirror is in its current state.
mind you i dont read China patch notes. nor do i care about it. they are irrelevant to the current game.

i want to know why FMs Mirror is so overloaded but his ekkei passive is literally * tier.
and so i proposed suggested and posted it all in the OP.

legit gets tiring when i have to remind everyone that this is a discussion.

please everyone.stay on topic.
This post was last edited by kon***@kongregate at 2016-10-25 14:30

so. you want to go off-topic to satisfy your epeen? ok.

prepare Ur* for a huge wall of text.
i won't post like you, i'll include boldings and such to make it less hurtful to your eyes. in only you did the same so i wouldn;t have to skim over your blind wall of texts. T.T

anyways.
i use whatever login i'm in at the time to post. kon,dra,ch3.
it's almost obvious that the huge wall of text posts thats trying to would be mine.
obviously now i'm using kon.

anyways, i've mentioned using Gaara-GWN. here. 1st post. 2nd page. did you even read?< http://forum.naruto.oasgames.com/en/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=7285&pid=42934&fromuid=128255 >
of course, i noted the usage of Neji 2*. which does not limit it to being 2*, it means i'm using his upgraded skill set on Regular Neji.but noted. i would use GWN-Neji instead if i only had data on his mystery CD. to which i don't, and so i would assume it's available for usage first round.

i never said my lineup is the 'dream team'.
it's a lineup. theorycrafted.
you apparently translated that into the .

and i quote: "About your BS "< http://forum.naruto.oasgames.com/en/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=7285&pid=43173&fromuid=128255 >

======

your statement:
"which you act like is a god, when I can easily take him down second turn"

i'm clearing boasting because you're not providing legitimate numbers/data for me to work with. CD timers on mystery's for instance. mainly on GWN-Neji.

and without clear-cut information, i can only trust that you're telling the truth. but where are your sources?
all of mine can be found currently just by opening the game and looking at the ninja tab. then from there basing my theory's off the texts given.
anything outside of this game and forum is not worth venturing. the topic has and always has, been about the state of Mirror Return in the current state of game.

and therefore, the reason behind my theorycrafted lineup.
does the current game have the data on Uchiha's as you have mentioned? no.
what about A-Path? or Konan? no.

but the game does note GWN-Neji and GWN-Gaara.
to which i based off of their regular forms to .


therefore i will not use the Uchiha's or A-Path/Konan via lack of data.
data to which you assume i will waste my time searching to discuss about that's completely off-topic.
as stated many, MANY times.

Kouka please.

quit editing your post and just post a new one so we can discuss further.
i'm legit re-reading through all the BS off-topic nonsense that's floating in my thread to see if i can clarify why everyone is obsessed that this is a 'nerf FM' rant.

i dont need help organizing a legit team, that stuff is childs play.
actually getting the ninja's, is a different story and totally off-topic.

but if i ever face my theorycrafted FM lineup.

i will be dumbfounded and know not what to do. besides pray RNGesus works in my favor.
why?

as stated.
the current state of FMs Mirror is overloaded. it;s literally a team-wide damage buff.

x-FM-NejiGWN
x-x-GaaraGWN
x-x-Naruto

there's literally nothing that can beat this team, bar RNGesus standard attacks -> R1 and kills Neji.

if that's the case. you can be a level 1 Karin. and beat everyone 1v4, because RNGesus allowed you to substitute jutsu if they don't run a 'cant be dodged' skill/attack.

the only real issue would be how battle mechanics worked.

I don't really get what's the big deal with fire main. Yeah he's the best at early game you can say that due to that mirror skill. But as level progresses, the growth rate of his potential to be the best is average. Unlike water mains, Earth mains, their start is very poor we all know that. But their growth for potential to be the best class is very very high as the level progresses. Do take note that each class has their own asset that can outshine one another.

I'm not theorizing or anything. I am a water main. I surely remember back when I got 14k power (free to play), I beat people who topped up like crazy who has 17k power fire main. That's the highest, also fire mains above my power gets beaten with ease. They have to spend more crazy amount of ingots to overwhelm my tactics since they are unable to outsmart me. It's just a matter of knowledge and technique to strategize well enough

the issue isn't FM.

the issue is FMs Mirror.

=

but if you've read far enough into the topic.
i created a theorycrafted FM lineup in hopes to shine light on how overloaded FMs Mirror is.

x-FM-NejiGWN
x-x-GaaraGWN
x-x-Naruto

and if you've been at 10K+ power marks.
i would assume you've faced those ninja's before, most likely Gaara and Naruto the most.

but have you faced this exact lineup?
it capitalizes on FMs Mirror, it literally makes this lineup top tier.

also. you can't use Mirror Return to vs them. Kurenai/FM
why? it'll further prove the point of this thread and it's initial discussion. and more specifically. .

if they nerf fire then they better nerf earth main shield too.

wrong discussion bud.

I'll give you a water main as my lineup against your theory-crafter FM lineup.

Talents: 3/2/3/2/2

Hinata x x
x x x
WM-Kakashi-Naruto

Any first inflicted damage is a counter to FMs mirror. And you worry about Neji as the first move? Wait for him to cast acupuncture mystery and heal it with your main's heal mystery. It costs 0 so you are able to initiate another mystery. Neji acupunctured your water main? Then initiate as well. Take him down asap, next is FM then naruto then gaara. In the first place, if you have higher refine (naruto at least), your theory-crafted lineup is wayyy no match to a basic WM setup

I did not mention china patch or notes, i just share my previous expirience and why i think the mirror and the mirage are good as they are. For one reason FM is the genjutsu specialist. This post was last edited by hil***@gmail.com at 2016-10-25 15:26

"current state of FMs Mirror is overloaded. it;s literally a team-wide damage buff" huh?

By that logic EM's Pose of Duel is also a Team-wide damage buff with no restrictions, except that they have to be at 50% or more HP for it to be effective, what about that?

"i want to know why FMs Mirror is so overloaded but his ekkei passive is literally * tier"

Every Main have a more common skillset and a *ty skillset. Nobody use WaterM's Soul Absorption, why is no one nitpicking on that?

"Gaara's up. and he'll trigger a chain combo that includes acupuncture with Neji in Round 2. that's on prompt. and will outspeed you if formation orders are working as intended"

And? Can that particular move, when paired with FM's Mirror return, can actually kill? With the White Snake summon it can only reach a 5 Hit combo with the Ignition applied at the end. The Damage Boost only kicks in if the Ignition is applied at the start of the combo. You're making a silly assumption here.

"FM's Mirror Return is overloaded with utility and a extremely potent damage boost. that's not restricted aside from it activating once per round"

Overloaded? 1 debuff reflect per round? As one who runs Poison Tai the 1st debuff I inflict is always poison. So FM reflects that back to me, what of it? The debuffs I inflict after that are more layers of poison, acupuncture, immoblie, ignite and paralyze. Should I be concernced about that 1 debuff he reflects? All on a Round 1 standard attack combo not relying on RNG.

If I use a team relying on pure damage buffers not relying on any status effects, should I be concerned about the Mirror Return?

"Fire Mains legit have 3 free debuff removed every turn

I'm guessing the 1 is from the reflect and the 2 from the Death Mirage? You assumed it works that way? "cancel at random a poor state of up to 2 units..." that's what it says. Did you know that of those 2 units, 1 of them is always the FM and the remaining 1 is random, and it DOESN"T check if the target actually has a debuff on them? It can target a unit that has no debuff on them at all and ignore a unit that actually needs that cleanse. It's UNRELIABLE.

"i listed the theorycrafted FM team,

we assume maxed stats.
arena stats.

power levels are a crutch and shouldn't be used.
RNGesus standard attacks -> combo are not allowed.

and both Neji and Gaara outspeeds your whole lineup. unless i'm misreading speed tiers wrong.
there's no way Naruto and Kakashi will be able to use their mystery's cleanly.

between Gaara and Neji. and mystery CDs. you'll be facing attacks from Gaara and Neji. and a lockdown from casting offensive mystery's.

Round 2.
if death mirage manages to land me chakra regain.
it's automatic GG.

Gaara and Neji mystery.
Neji will interrupt Naruto/Kakashi and the Gaara will aim for WaM.

regardless of which, you now have 2 units acupunctured. and WaM is immobiled via chase combos from GaaraGWN.

R3.
Gaara and Neji mystery down.
and you lose either Kakashi or Naruto. whichever was used previously.

chances are high you'll use Kakashi or Naruto to trigger mystery -> chase combos.

regardless of who it's used on. i'll let it slide. because WaM is my real concern.
your Hinata's acupuncture gets reflect back at your team. it's irrelevant who it lands on.

and if WaM is already low enough from the previous encounter. she's dead this round.
she won't be able to jutsu either.

according to speed tiers. FM should be quicker, and there capable of landing his mystery -> chase combo = more lockdown.

4th round.
your WaM is consider'd dead. via Naruto mystery. coupled with the ignite inflicted by FM from earlier.

and that's match point right there.
my theory team wins.

====

unless we factor in RNGesus combo procs. but we won't, because RNGesus is unreliable in theorycrafting concrete situations.

i can't even.

go read the first post.
i legit compared each Main.