awesome. thanks for the insight.
almost makes me sad that i had opt for Death Mirage/
you also assumed i'm using base Gaara and Naruto. why!?

for my counter argument,
let's assume we prepared to fight each other so as to already know what to expect.in turn, that means you have the mindset of thinking on using base Naruto,Gaara,Neji. which has costed you dearly.

and i'll go with your suggested lineup and movesets for your WaM, Shark Bomb, Healing, Chakra Blade, Immobile passive, Poison Tai

which means i won't be using Death's Mirage. in turn i'll be using Bani Chakra for random ignites. without knowing you're using Poison Tai (which will end up costing you). read on, you'll see.

and so,
the only truly unknown would be how you place your ninja's in formation.

i've already opt for:
x-FM-NejiGWN
x-x-GaaraGWN
x-x-Naruto

and i would assume from what i gather'd is that your formation would be:

x-x-Hinata
Sasuke-x-Kisame
x-x-x

i honestly have no access to where your WaM is, and i assumed since Sasuke is slower than Gaara, he will be in the slowest possible ideal place. which is back row behind Kisame. why Kisame? because you hinted that your Hinata has more often than not, gone first in a prompt. so she's in the fastest rank in the formation. Meaning, you're Kisame would be the next ideal tank. hence 2nd ranked.

but we'll assume you we didn't know each other's formation. because before every fight, the formation already decides whether you're at an advantage or disadvantage. but i do need a formation so i'll assume you roll'd something like this.

x-x-Hinata
Sasuke-WaM-Kisame
x-x-x

===================
let's start a more realistic version of this fight.
===================

Round 1.

- GWN-Gaara enters the field with his barrier. according to text.

- you assumed i'm gonna Neji -> Hinata.
there;s no point in doing so when i see Kisame and Sasuke in the lineup. i'm gonna save it for them.

- so apparently Kisame can AA pass Neji(which is in front) and target my FM?! lulwut. that's interesting.

regardless, you're going for the RNGesus combo proc. it's almost like GNW-Gaara can't RNGesus and proc KD -> Immobile. and this RNGesus gets worse since Neji-GWN pursue combos with KD. which means, Hinata is gonna get damper'd quite a bit.

- i would assume a Sasuke Kirin popping up Round 1 so as to counter Gaara's barrier.
i'm gonna use Neji on Sasuke. so as to stop Kiring from activating.

- now Neji gets increased evasion. meaning we both sustain miniscule trigram damages. whether or not it triggers Naruto damage passive, that's irrelevant. but worth noting.

- and also Poison Tai. i'll give your team the benefit and say Hinata manged to trigram every single AA, in return, Neji does the same. meaning no poison was inflicted at this time. Unless Neji proc's it via mystery usage, but i would assume Mirror Return tosses it to one of your guys. because that's what this thread is about. .

- lets assume Sasuke got poisoned. but that's irrelevant because you'll heal him of his debuffs. therefore, Sasuke is now free from acupuncture.

=
we will assume that Round 1 proc'd maximum hits. no combos. cuz Combos are RNGesus and gives a huge advantage in the match. this will persist throughout this version of the fight
=

Round 2.

- Neji mystery down. Sasuke mystery down. Hinata mystery down.
i'm at 3 mystery open. you're at 2.

- i'm going straight for the win here. once you Kisame mystery, which is very likely.
Gaara mystery -> Neji Acupuncture -> FM's combo via HFloat chase -> Kisame Mystery down.

of course. now Gaara and Kisame are competing in speed. i would assume Gaara takes the lead because GWN's tend to be benefit'd like that. unless you have actual proof that Kisame has a higher chance to win the speed tier, please enlighten me.

and yes. this whole part is RNG. why? because speed tier mechanics data is nowhere to be found. but because of GWN logic. Gaara will Kisame.

- with that done. it means Kisame;s mystery is down and won't be doing much this fight. i'm at 0 chakra after using Gaara's mystery.

- and also no shark bombs are used due to lack of chakra. hence no immobile per your scenario.

- also, Kisame is now cured of debuffs. chances are high poison has been inflicted across the board on my side. i'll give you the benefit and say Kisame was also poisoned, but it was cured along with acupuncture. i'm generous aren't i? best case scenarios to both sides.

=
wow. Round 2 and your whole scenario has dampened greatly. you should assume the best ninja picked, and not base Naruto and base Gaara
anyways, same deal with Round 1. maximum hits. no combos. cept i'm at an advantage because you are forced to attack Neji. why? because his passive forces you to. and i can target your favord Kisame to chip him down as much as i can. your Hinata is no threat at all.
=

Round 3.

- already with the given scenario. my team has more HP. that whole Gaara mystery -> Neji combo just got done putting a huge dent into your Kisame.

- i'm at 2 mystery's, and you are at 1.
FM, Naruto vs WaM.
Neji, Hinata, and Sasuke's are coming off CD in i'm not sure when Kisame's will be up. but i would assume Round 4 also.

- so what now? you're stuck yet again with just AAing my team. why? FM Dragon Breath.
FM Dragon Breath -> Neji chase(acupuncture) -> Gaara Chase -> FM chase.
your WaM has now been locked out of casting Shark Bomb. that along with no more debuff heals.

- lets not forget. i have selected Bani Chakra. we will assume best case scenario and it's be cured along with whatever status i've inflicted on you.

- so what now? i'm going to target either your WaM or Kisame. if ignite from Bani is on either of them, they will be dying soon. if not, it's irrelevant. i'm using Naruto's mystery to inflict repulse damage and ignite. i'll aim for Kisame. he's taken a huge beating already.

- now standard attacks happen. and you are now poisond. lets put RNG on my side this time and say it's on Kisame.

=
as you can see. i've already inflicted 3 turns of lockdown. you haven't been able to activate a single jutsu aside from Hinata's.
also ignite is ready to * stuff up. Kisame will die this following turn. if he hasn't already.
=

Round 4.

- Mystery's are back.
FM, Neji vs Hinata, Sasuke, Kisame

- rinsed and repeat. at this point it doesnt matter. with 80 chakra to use. i'd legit killi off Kisame this turn. and inflicting acupuncture should you decide to use Kirin. which is highly likely you will. otherwise i get to save a mystery,

- now you backs are to the walls. it's a 3v4 and your WaM has to decide if she wants to heal herself or Sasuke to cleanse acupuncture.

- regardless of which. it's game over come round 5.

=

Round 5.

- Enter Gaara.

- GGWP.

=======================

As for your "main team"
i've gatherd

WaM
Animal-Path
Konan

no idea who the 4th is. but it's irrelevant. and without access to Animal-Path and Konan's data i can't give out much counter argument. but i'll give it a shot.
-
can i risk acupuncture Round 1? i would assume so if your only way of healing it is using WaM's heal.
there's no way you'll outcast Neji's mystery w/ A-Path being the slowest unit in formation. so you ain't tagging anyone first round.
unless of course, you bring me legitimate concrete data on how speed tiers and turn order works.
-
as for Konan?! i have no idea what she's even capable of. all i know is, come 2nd round she's getting her ass Gaara'd. end of story. repeat of my above scenario and you're already legit locked for 3 Rounds. lose a member at 4. and the match at 5.
-

your greatest downfall was assuming i run base Naruto and Gaara in my ideal best theorycrafted FM team.
Like how did you come to the conclusion that my best theorycrafted FM uses the weaker Gaara, and pointless base Naruto?! rofl.

/gg no re.

edit:
bolds so wall of text isn't blinding


This post was last edited by dra***@gmail.com at 2016-10-24 14:47

please dont assume it's based versions.

im talking GWN Neji, GWN Gaara, and Naruto.
come again when actually read throughout the posts.

i literally shortened it to base names so as to save time. and to have confused me for using base forms, you must not take me seriously.

also. this thread is about .
everything else is related to discussing about said passive skill.

but apparently everyone wants a live formation scenario and whatnot.
so i provided:

x-FM-GWN Neji
x-x-GWN Gaara
x-x-Naruto

shortened to:

x-FM-Neji
x-x-Gaara
x-x-Naruto

and apparently you're pretty high in yourself assuming i'm using the base forms.
and you ask me what lvl i am? what power level im at?!

how dare you fall for such bait?!

I'M OVER 9000!

/you've been got.
/gg no re.
/read everything before posting
/

but i ask you anyways oh mighty one.
did you even read the opening post long enough to discuss about the changes i proposed to ?

or did you legit skimmed through and assume this thread was a "this FM lineup is OP" thread?

dear God help us all/

i would also assume anyone that read the bolded "suggested /hotfix" legit gets tilted and assumed i'm a scrub that can't deal with FMs.

and therefore skipped out on the discussion on my proposed change.

dont be that person.
we all know that passive is overloaded.
and someone posted here that FMs are low-tier in China. which means something must be up. and i find to be the root reason why.

so please. * to the topic.

the thread is about .
i added Death Mirage because it's part of my 'power swap' suggestions in the OP.

the thing with RoW is that it's limited to sword-based ninja's in a LM lineup. which means it can have all those benefits. i'm not complaining about it at all.

Mirror? that's universal in any of FMs lineup. atm as it stands. it's THE ONLY PASSIVE WORTH PICKING in that slot. if you're FM and not running Mirror. you're just kicking yourself in the knee.

why? because it gives FM everything they can ever want. debuff protection, free debuffs via reflection, and on top of all that. an extremely good damage boost.

FMs Mirror Return gets the best of both worlds in terms of damage and defensive skills.

=

now imagine if WaMs can equip both Neurotoxin and Healing Jutsu. an offensive skill and a defensive skill.
that's what FM's Mirror gives him. the best of both worlds.

=

and if you had read the OP you would of seen the "suggested /hotfix"
see that nerf? i bet you legit assume i was a scrublord posting another "FM NERF OP" thread. amirite? and completely disregarded the rest of the post.

yeah.

i suggested to swap powers around. if you dont know what i had already tossed out. here's a summarized recap.
-
Mirror: reflects debuff to 2 enemy units. no debuff cleanse. once per round, for 2 or 3 rounds.

Mirror loses damage buff. but now becomes defined as THE debuff reflector/copy. hence "mirrors".
-
Death Mirage: heals all debuff up to 2 allied units per round.

DM loses out on the chakra restore. but now becomes THE DEBUFF CLEANSE. which was previously removed from Mirror and put into here. could use a few buffs but its a good start from here.
-
Bani Chakra: now gains Chakra restoration.

how would it happen and how much chakra restored? we can say that each time ignite ticks, you gain 20 chakra. or maybe it becomes something crazy. . i posted this in one of my posts.
-
Ekkei buff: remember that damage removal from Mirror? yeah. it gets put here.

why? now it becomes similar to that of LMs RoW. we can work out the intricate details in this discussion. but apparently folks like you only read "suggest /hotfix" and stop reading from there and assume this is a "FM nerf" thread.
-

so please.
provide something useful for Mirror Discussion and not FM nerfs/lineups/battle mechanics/mains this mains that/etc.
i legit just got done discussing this matter with Kouka.

as an added note.
You're assuming that i said Mirror + Mirage = legit broken.

no. just, no.

i stated,
Mirror . when you get access to Mirage.

Legit first 2 sentence in the OP.