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  • Registered: 2017-07-24
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On 2019-04-08 19:00:04Show All Posts
6#

Naruto wasn`t told how to beat him, he figured out himself how to do it after he talked with Eight Tail. He told Naruto that when they fought they both collapsed and then Naruto realized how to beat him. Besides that, Naruto was able to actually hit Raikage with his rasenshuriken without knowing anything about him so i`m pretty sure he could beat him.


Do we really argue about Itachi? Ok. Itachi was a genius, even after his death he managed to help the world id say by ending the Edo Tensei Jutsu. He had Totsuka Blade, a blade that could seal anyone just by piercing him, he had Yata Mirror, the most power shield that could negate any attack whether it be spiritual, or physical. He could use Amaterasu, Tsukuyomi, Izanami, Susanoo and other justsus. So, yes, Itachi vs Raikage is like a giant truck vs a baby duck.




This post was last edited by Haotiq on 2019-04-08 19:02:00.
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On 2019-04-08 21:38:25Show All Posts
8#
  • joshtaku On 2019-04-08 20:08:05
  • Talking with the eight tales plus one of the land of lightning guys telling him about the scar is what gave naruto the idea of using raikage's attacks against him. Without those, naruto wouldn't have beaten him. He hit the raikage with a rasenshuriken and literally it did nothing to the raikage. Even naruto stated it. This is especially impressive considering that wind naturally counters lightning and yet rasenshuriken did nothing to the raikage but to remove his lightning armor.


    Okay now on to itachi. Itachi using amaterasu wouldn't do anything but to maybe burn the battlefield since the fourth raikage was able to easily dodge sasuke's amaterasu and proceeded to nearly blitz sasuke. The third raikage is stated to be faster and stronger than the fourth so I don't see amaterasu hitting him. Itachi's intelligence and ability to find a weakness to every jutsu is dangerous for most opponents, but not for the third raikage considering his most powerful technique literally has not weakness except to pull out a jutsu powerful enough to break through his perfect shield; something that itachi doesn't have since he hasn't really shown any strong wind techniques. Totsuka blade is iffy at best since it's a big sword that can be easily dodged given you have the speed to do so. To further upon this, itachi had to capitalize on nagato being momentarily dazed by chibaku tensei's destruction to be able to hit him with the blade.


    The yata mirror is the most OP thing in the anime and manga but it is also not omnidirectional. Itachi's susanoo also hinders his movements making him a slow and big target. If he can turn the mirror fast enough, then he can hold off the raikage but given the raikage's speed, he could just go around the back of itachi's susanoo and hit him from there with his strongest spear technique which can definitely pierce the susanoo.


    I just don't see itachi having anything other than the totsuka blade to combat the raikage and that is considering he can even hit the raikage.


    edit: also forgot to point out that tsukuyomi and genjutsu would only work if the opponent directly looks at itachi's eyes, which the raikage would most certainly not do. And with his speed, I doubt itachi would be able to force the raikage to look at him. To further upon this, madara had to stop the fourth raikage with his susanoo so he could put him under genjutsu. I don't see itachi's susanoo doing that to a faster and stronger third raikage.

You`re missing the most important thing. Yes, his rasenshuriken did almost no dmg to him but it still hit Raikage despite his lightning speed, destroyed his armor and left him unconscious for a short period which was enough time for the sealing group to almost catch him. Now, Naruto was able to hit Raikage so he can hit him. Using Sage Mode; Frog Kumite he could sense danger over a wide range and so he could avoid Raikage's strongest justsu as he did in the anime. So (i know i`m repeating myself, sorry for that, its just my style of arguing) Naruto can hit Raikage, destroying his armor and also he can avoid his attacks using sage mode.


Now Itachi. Yes, maybe Amaterasu couldnt hit Raikage but as you said he could burn the battlefield and due to that he could restrict Raigake's movements. I've seen Naruto Shippuden twice and i dont remember anyone saying that Susanoo makes the user slower (From what i know Susanoo is made from chakra and i don't think chakra is so heavy that it would restrict Itachi's movements, if you have any proof on that please show me, it would be a nice information ;) ). Yes its a big target since Susanoo is big but its also a shield who prevents the user being injured by physical attacks ( Raikage's speciality). I'm not saying that Susanoo alone could negate Raikage's justsu but it would give Itachi enough time to react and improve the defense with Yata Mirror or maybe to attack with Totsuka Blade. Its true that Tsukuyomi and other genjutsu wouldnt affect Raikage (probably) but Izanami on the other side doesnt require visual contact, it requires physical sensations.


P.S. Its not necessary to use wind style to defeat a lightning style user.




This post was last edited by Haotiq on 2019-04-08 21:39:35.
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On 2019-04-08 22:12:49Show All Posts
12#
  • joshtaku On 2019-04-08 22:07:38
  • Look I'm not taking away anything from naruto but the info literally given to him is not an inherent part of himself, it's an outside factor. If he had fought the raikage without gyuki there to tell him the story of how he fought the raikage or that lightning ninja to tell him about the scar, then he would have at best been in a stalemate with the raikage where he would keep launching rasenshurikens until he either runs out of chakra or is forced to retreat. It would have been another thing if Naruto were able to put together the pieces by himself (which would be impossible) which is why the lightning ninja and gyuki had to be there to tell him about it.

As he may seem he's not that stu.pid lol. He could figure it out that sage justsus works on Jin Madara. He's not as smart as Sasuke in combat but still c*e his brain.




This post was last edited by Haotiq on 2019-04-08 22:13:22.
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On 2019-04-08 22:19:04Show All Posts
15#
  • joshtaku On 2019-04-08 22:12:55
  • Itachi is by no means the fastest character in the series. Arguably, shisui is faster than him and so is minato. Now, true that Ay does have to get close to him to attack but it doesn't really matter if he can close the gap between him and itachi in literally less than a second. During the fight between the fourth raikage and sasuke, sasuke was struggling to keep track of the raikage even with his eternal mangekyou sharingan; something that itachi did not have. If sasuke had trouble with the fourth raikage, then I don't see itachi faring any better against the stronger third raikage. Also to mention is that itachi has never shown the ability to control amaterasu the way sasuke does to cover his susanoo like a flame armor.

    And as I've already said earlier, the tsukuyomi is a non-factor given itachi wouldn't really be able to force raikage to look him in the eyes for him to use it. The raikage's speed is faster than the sharingan can see.

Why are you relying on Sasuke vs Fourth. Itachi was far stronger than Sasuke at that time. And to be honest, Itachi doesnt need Amaterasu, Tsumuyomi or genjutsu. He may need Susanoo to protect but in the end Izanami cannot be stopped by Raikage so izi win.

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On 2019-04-08 22:58:22Show All Posts
19#
  • joshtaku On 2019-04-08 22:32:23
  • What, no. But before I explain, let me point out that sasuke DID NOT have eternal mangekyou at the five kage summit that was a mistake. But that said, sasuke obtained a substantial powerup that rivaled itachi's during the summit arc. I'm not saying he could win against itachi, but the only thing stopping sasuke from surpassing him is the totsuka blade and yata mirror. I bring up the raikage vs sasuke part because it's a good way to scale off itachi and the third raikage. Sasuke at that point was comparable to itachi, with itachi being slightly more powerful. The third is more powerful than the fourth and if sasuke is comparable to itachi, then it's safe to say that the third is a bit too much for itachi to handle. Also, the condition to use izanami is to replicate the sensation you and your opponent feel during a clash of attacks (like when itachi blocked kabuto's weird claw hands with his sword) Now, if you can concretely say that itachi can do that block with the raikage's full powered thrust then I concede that izanami would be a closing factor.

I'll do the same thing and i'll bring up the fight between Naruto and Raikage. If Naruto could hit Raikage with rasenshuriken and later with rasengan its fair to say that Itachi could do the same thing and even better since he was far far far stronger than Naruto. Also i dont think we can compare the Sasuke vs fourth fight and Itachi vs third fight that much. Fourth style of fightning and third style were different just as Sasuke and Itachi's. And if you still want to compare them, i'll say that Sasuke was able to injure Fourth with Amaterasu and if Gaara wasnt there to stop fourth it would`ve ended much worse than with a cutted hand.

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On 2019-04-08 23:34:12Show All Posts
25#
  • joshtaku On 2019-04-08 23:05:53
  • Where did you get that itachi is far far stronger than naruto at kcm? Naruto was holding back against him during their fight to tell him about sasuke. If he had gone full speed, itachi would have gotten overwhelmed. And the fourth and third use practically the same lightning armor jutsu, just that the third is far more superior to the fourth. This was stated.


    I use it to compare because itachi and sasuke have the same level of visual prowess (both using mangekyou) and the specific point I was bringing up is the speed blitz that sasuke had to endure before he caught the raikage in his blaze release susanoo armor. I specifically pointed out that sasuke couldn't keep track of the fourth's speed. Ergo, the third who is even faster would be too much for itachi to keep track of. Now, if you're going to argue that itachi's visual prowess is greater than sasuke's then please name a scenario where that was stated or shown. Because as it was shown in the mange and anime, pretty much every sharingan provides the same boost in visual capabilities. It's just a matter of by how much it boosts the person's base.


    edit: sasuke and itachi's style are not that far off. Itachi literally passed his powers on to sasuke. The only outlier is the totsuka and yata mirror which he kept for himself.


    edit edit: and like I already mentioned as well, the rasenshuriken did nothing. It didn't damage the raikage. That's the point I'm trying to make here. If one of the strongest wind techniques coming from a KCM amped naruto didn't damage the raikage, I don't see itachi dishing out a technique that can damage the raikage either (since he has never shown a technqiue with the same level of destructive power as the rasenshuriken. Except maybe for yasaka magatama)

You keep saying that Naruto was holding back when he fought Itachi. Then its fair to say that itachi was holding back too, and we know he was since when Naruto and Itachi fough before, Itachi put a crow in him,the one with Shisui's eye.At that moment Itachi decided to be on his side because he knew he'll bring sasuke back on a good path. Naruto didnt know Itachi's powers so giving that Itachi could easily surprise Naruto with Susanoo. Besides that while Naruto was struggling with the crow Itachi could easily attack him and defeat him.


Also if we still compare Sasuke and 4th and Itachi and 3rd let's compare Itachi and Naruto with any of them. 3rd and 4th are faster than Naruto and if Itachi can handle 3rd and he can i`m sure he can handle Naruto too. Yes, Naruto in KM is stronger than in normal state, but he cant possibly defeat Itachi. Id say that at best Naruto have a chance to defeat Itachi while in 6 Paths Mode.




This post was last edited by Haotiq on 2019-04-08 23:41:15.
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On 2019-04-08 23:51:44Show All Posts
32#
  • joshtaku On 2019-04-08 23:41:02
  • What are you talking about. Itachi didn't have the option to "hold back" in the fight because he was being controlled by kabuto. He didn't want to fight naruto but had no choice because kabuto wanted him to. When kabuto gave the order to attack, the best that itachi could do was to shout warnings at naruto about what he was going to use to attack next. And we're talking about speed here. I'm saying itachi has neither the capability nor ability to dodge a full speed assault from the third raikage.


    And you're saying the only version of naruto that can beat itachi is six paths mode? Are you forgetting about kcm2 cloak naruto? kcm 1 is already on par if not superior to itachi going by feats alone. Naruto, when using the full speed of his kcm, was faster than the 3rd raikage but even he admits that it's pointless since his attacks can't damage the raikage.

Itachi wasnt in the mindless state (the state with the white eyes) when he attacked Naruto. When Kabuto ordered him to attack he didnt said how, so Itachi was able to fight him like he was training with a friend. If Itachi wasnt holding back he would`ve going all out with every justsu he had. Also he even helped Naruto by telling him where the attacks will come from.


As for the capability to dodge 3rd attack he doesnt need too. He`s not a speed type like 3rd or 4th. Instead he has the greatest defensive ability in the whole Narutoverse, Yata Mirror. Why would he dodge something that he can easily stop.

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On 2019-04-09 00:03:04Show All Posts
38#
  • joshtaku On 2019-04-08 23:56:53
  • my god, you just literaly rephrased what I just said. That. Is. My. Point. Itachi didn't want to win. He wanted naruto to win. And although you could argue he was holding back, it isn't really by much since he still has no control over his movements. If he did, he would have just stopped moving to let naruto hit him.

    I am trying to say that the raikage can move around fast enough to get behind the susanoo and pierce it from thereeeeeeeee. The raikage would hit the mirror once and realize it's impenetrable and would just adjust his strategy to move behind itachi and strike.

As i said before Susanoo acts like a shield. He covers the entire body of the users even his back. I simply dont believe that Raikage would pierce Susanoo in a second and kill Itachi. Itachi is a genius and he doenst need hours to react, just a second.


I.m not saying that Raikage isnt strong, his jutsu is indeed a great one, but facing Itachi it would be useless since we are not talking just about pure strenght but about strategy too.

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On 2019-04-09 00:19:16Show All Posts
40#
  • xxMihai On 2019-04-09 00:05:39
  • Lol the original poster thought the raikage could just get behind itachi and pierce his susanoo and kill him. While Itachi is not doing anything. Even so, at best it could only crack the susanoo, or his finger going inside the susanoo a little bit, not enough to reach itachi.

    TBH Kirin is a stronger jutsu than raikage's finger.

Well i understand him. He likes 3rd just as i like Itachi which is also my favorite character. We took it too far anyways.


Well, Minato vs Raikage. Minato is named Yellow Flash for a reason, he was able to kill 1000 shinobi alone and as we could see in the anime he could easily surpass 4th in speed at a certain moment. Somehow he managed to even get the KM while dead.In my opinion in normal state Raikage may be able to get Minato but in Edo Tensei state i dont think he stands a chance.

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On 2019-04-10 05:59:59Show All Posts
50#
  • momohiu On 2019-04-10 03:19:11
  • Edo tensei ninja are not weaker than when they were alive. When Madara came from the death he was stronger than when he was alive because Kabuto enhanced the jutsu and the body of Madara. When Tobirama came back, he said that this time Orochimaru brought him back with his full power unlike the time Hiruzen defeated both the first and the second Hokage alone. Also, Minato is not fast, he teleports. It's completely different. Minato's reaction time is not as fast as Ay or any fast ninja, his body doesn't move so fast either.

Actually Edo Tensei ninjas are weaken than when they were alive. It`s true that they have an immortal body, well almost immortal, (Minato`s hands didn`t recovered when he got hit by the Truth Seeking Orb) and unlimited chakra but they are still weaker. Tobiramas didnt said he was at full power, he said that he was at nearly full power and we could see that when he created only 2 clones. I know he was holding the barrier but that moment showed us why they are weaker. Even if they have unlimited chakra their chakra tank is limited and they can`t use their jutsus at full power. Madara body was enhanced with Hashirama`s cells so he can awaken the rinnegan but even so he still was weaker. We can see that when Hashirama used Sage Art Gracious Deity Gates to block Madara`s movements, that time Madara was unable to move but when he came back to life he destroyed the jutsu in a second and while reviving he even said `Finally, i`ll be able to fight for real`.


Now Minato. He is fast lol. He doesn`t necessary needs preps to fight and we can clearly see that when he fought Masked Man. Yes, when he was fighting with 4th he used his kunais to combat his speed and he succeded.

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On 2019-04-10 06:26:01Show All Posts
52#
  • xxMihai On 2019-04-10 06:19:35
  • Well, depends what Minato you're talking about. In Kurama form he was faster obviously but the normal version relied too much on Kunais for "speed".

Im talking about the normal form, when he was alive. And yes he was relying on kunais because the kunais had his formula on them. He could aswell get a *, put the formula on it, trow it and teleport. Also as 3rd raikage was relying on his hand to do his most powerful jutsu so was Minato and his kunais.

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On 2019-04-10 07:42:27Show All Posts
55#
  • momohiu On 2019-04-10 07:24:09
  • I will leave this here for the edo tensei debate.

    Capture d’écran 2019-04-09 à 19

    Also, I insist there is a difference between being fast and being able to teleport. Ay moves faster than a kunai thrown by Minato.

Untitled

'Close' not 'Full power'. There`s a difference as we can see in anime, i won`t repeat myself with when and how, i said it earlier.


As for the Minato vs Ay, if Naruto in first stage of KM could hit him he`s not that fast as you want him to be.

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