I don't even understand your compensations lol. You gave "compensations" without even explaining why they would compensate. That's not how discussions should go...

Currently, The best Mains in terms of optimal teams are

Earth/Wind > Fire > Lightning > Water

Fire is generally considered the "safe" main for *l-purpose team. He's far from weak, however far from being a highlight.

While there's plenty of people here arguing their point about LM and Root with Shisui, etc.

The entire bases focus on that focal point. Reality is, LM's structured teams aren't better than Fire, let alone Earth/Wind. Why?

Mirror and Debuff Mystery. Not to mention Fire also has an extremely healthy clone that works wonders for combo centered teams.

There's a reason why Fire is considered a "whale" main. Because of his unconditional support skills.

I'll reply to this suggestion I've seen on this thread.

"SUGGESTIONS for Scarlet Blaze improvement:

1. Make Illusion-Mirroring Jutsu 2 round cooldown instead of 3.

2. Replace one of his standard attacks with one similar to Lightning Main's Calm Mind.

3. Make his clone attack on it's own, using Scarlet Blaze's Fire Style-Bomb Blast. Make it have 60% of it's owner HP instead of 40%. Basically same % as Water Main's version of it.

4. Make Ninjutsu Urge leech for 25% and improve ninjutsu by 25%. Basically same % as LM's version of it. Keep Genjutsu Mirror where it is, his only redeeming passive.

5. Last but not least, give him Immunity Passive to 3 fire ninjas and 100% resistance, name it Root of Fire and replace Death Mirage with it.

There is no point in having a talent slot, a weaker clone of someone else's talent, cause it still wastes one talent slot.

Now BRB while I switch to Lightning Main, seems to be the better option for PvP."

1. AoE Team debuff immunity at 2 rounds would make Fire vastly above Earth/Wind. That mystery is key in tough situations, reasons, why Y'all might think he's lackluster, is simply because people love *ing that mystery early in the fight or when there's one stack of poison, instead of 3-4.

2. One of Fire's major advantages that players tend to forget is that he has a high base damage. You don't have to have him geared for him to actually be able to provide a medium level damage to the team. His AoE fire spit is a good example. On top of Oboro clone, you get two of them with a solid chance of igniting.

Although I'd say people would tend to ignore a calm mind style standard in favor of his already amazing standard. But it's not a bad choice to have.

3. Absolutely not.

You're technically nerfing the clone by making it attack on its own. Considering it's a nerfed base stats on it, compared to Fire Main's original.

As for % HP on the clone? His clone makes him extremely versatile, While Waters is simply there for the standard. Oboro Clone provides more with his kit.

4. Majority of skills are Ninjutsu focused, hence why it's a lesser value compared to Lightning Main.

5. I'm not even gonna bother replying to this.

Fire Main's job isn't to be a clone of another Main, it's to provide his very niche. Of course, some of his talents are lackluster, however, they work in certain cases. Which is why he'll be buffed in the future to compensate for that. (Of course, he'll be nerfed in his strong sides)

The issue with FM is that he's just there for one job and one job alone. There's no versatile as a main. He's simply used for Mystery Debuff, AoE Standard, Mirror Passive and Oboro Clone. Which is simple and effective. But definitely one-sided.

To wrap this up. Do I feel he needs a buff? Definitely, But do I feel he needs a nerf too? Yes.

He's extremely good at the niche he provides. While other mains fail to compensate after their initial buffs wear out.

LM is extremely good with Root, but after R2, he's quite lackluster and can honestly only give AoE Aura skills like Leeching, 5 Rounds ablities like Warriors Intent, etc.

Water is all around but generally the focus during any fight and because she lacks any defensive skills, she'll be eaten alive without a support. And you know how that goes, Support needing a Support. Fun right.

Now Earth and Wind are simply unconditional with what they offer.

Flower Guard, Clones, Clones, Clones.

Defensive Knowledge, Shields, Shields.

Just check actual Space-Time fights between the strongest people and you'll realize quickly why certain mains are used.

I'm pretty sure he meant that exists at least one team with her that beats on comparable power all the 'optimal' teams you talked about.

(i am perfectly able to figure one, guessing what he wanted to say).

Which there isn't.

It's variables of other teams. The only Azure Fang team that has any depth would be Kurama-Sage Hashi-Kisame Shark at the moment.

Secondary to Edo Deidara, Kisame Shark, Jinpachi.

Which are both stellar at this point, considering the kind of game we're playing.

whales only use SB to support their other 7k$ teams. they don't use SB because to win they use him to ''enable'' their madaras and itachis to win then the match.

Lol that mystery change makes no sense, he has only 2 things going for him and that is Illusion Shield and Genjutsu Mirror, even those can be stopped if you're smart.

SB lacks a good permanent buff, Ninjutsu Urge is a joke compared to Anbu Tactics, Guidance, Defense Knowledge.

Basically, I know you play water main and fire main pretty much is the counter for their cancerous poisons and cancerous heals. But really? To make his only good mystery useless that is your suggestion? Those shields he gives go away in 1 standard attack, worst shields in the whole game, then their not immune anymore and you can poison all over again. Lol...