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[ Player Guide ] The difference between "causing" and "receiving" a debuff

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  • Registered: 2017-07-24
  • Topics: 14
  • Posts: 167
On 2020-11-07 23:39:13Show this Author OnlyDescending Order
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Today I wanted to talk about a mechanic within the game that only very few people know about that answer the following questions: Why does Water Main with Neurotoxin not control fail? Why are the Elemental Puppets in Ninja Exam sometimes affected by Poison Tai but seem to be not affected at all towards the end of the match and why does King of Hell always poison them?


First of all I need to tell you this: There are 2 ways a unit in this game can get hit with a debuff. The first way is to directly use a ability that specifically says it "causes" a certain debuff. For example Ino's mystery directly "causes" chaos and Neji will "cause" Acupuncture to the selected unit. These abilities are also affected by the Control stat (and will also always cause interruption but only if those debuffs are either chaos, immoble or acupuncture).


But there is another way a unit can get affected by a debuff. For example anyone who hits Fu Yamanaka's puppet with a ninjutsu attribute ability will "receive" chaos. This type of debuffing can't control fail.


The reason why Water Main's Neurotoxin can't control fail is because she herself doesn't directly "cause" the chaos debuff. Instead anyone who gets hit by a crit will "receive" the chaos debuff. It is also the reason why Tsunade [Sannin War] and Pakura can't control fail because their abilities don't "cause" the debuff but instead anyone who gets hit by a crit will "receive" it.


Now let's talk about how this mechanic works with debuffs that don't control you like Poison. Have you ever tried Poison Tai on Guy and let Guy hit Founder Madara with his standard attack? What you might notice is not only will Founder Madara not receive any damage from Guy, but he will also not get poisoned by Poison Tai. The reason for that is because the Poison Tai doesn't actually "cause" poisoning to anyone who gets hit by a Taijutsu attack. Instead anyone that gets damaged by a Taijutsu attack will "receive" the Poison debuff and since Founder Madara can't be damaged by full Taijutsu attacks he will also not get poisoned. And now here is the the real killer: The same way Founder Madara is immune to full Taijutsu damage, the Elemental Puppets from Ninja Exams are also immune to any daamge that isn't their exact chakra nature element. So therefore the Elemental Puppets can't receive Poison Tai if you hit them with an attack that doesn't damage them.


Testing for my Madara example can be found here: https://youtu.be/G7m1UHuM90Q


To poison the Elemental Puppets you need something that "causes" poison like Karin's mystery, King of Hell or Water Main's Poison Fog Wave. Also keep in mind that abilities like Edo Sasori's standard attack can still poison Founder Madara since even though Founder Madara is immune the Edo Sasori's standard attack, Edo Sasori "causes" poison instead of making others who get damaged "receive" it.


This knowledge doesn't come in handy very often but if you ever wondered why Water Main doesn't control fail or why the Elemental Puppets don't seem to get poisoned by Poison Tai now you know why. Thank you for reading through this, have a good day




This post was last edited by pizzas on 2020-11-07 23:39:13.
  • Registered: 2017-07-24
  • Topics: 6
  • Posts: 328
On 2020-11-07 23:59:03Show this Author Only
2#

Congratulations, you have found the 2 secrets of this game regarding Debuffs

those two took researchers of this game, like me, a lot of time to figure out, and usually via hard ways (through dead fights)

for me, the term ''causing'' and ''receiving'' are the same (since im bad at englisk), though the mechanics are different

i'll explain such mechanics briefly below, so it's easier to understand

let's use Neji, Water Main, Kurenai Summer and Chojuro with water main as tests subjects

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About Neji, he causes Acupuncture with his mystery/chase. When causing the Debuff, the system will compare Neji and the affected unit's control rate, and then using a formula to check the percentage, and then (cough) randomly decides if the control is failed or hit. ofc in this case, 100% = not fail. that explains the fails and also the reason why sometimes even ~91% control rate still fails.

As for Water main passive 1-2, she causes Chaos whenever she causes a critical hit, so the chaos is programed to happen at the same time the crit happened without any intervention of control rate, that's why whenever she crits, she causes chaos. Although there is still a chance through it, and that chance is the critical rate of hers and of the affected unit's to find out if she causes crit or not (this is rip if she uses chase 3)

Regarding Kurenai Summer (and other ninjas like Sasuke Rinnegan, or Fu's puppet), their passives are programed like Yes and No question, there's a 45% chance to answer Yes. If the system is answered Yes, then the affected unit will suffer from Chaos.

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Now for Poison Tai.

Poison Tai not only works whenever you deal Tai damage, it only works whenever you deal damage. So if for example, Guy kicks Madara, he won't get damage and won't get Poison. However, there's more of the programming into Poison Tai.

If that unit is already causing damage in that round, then deals damage to a unit that is immune to damage, the system will check it as dealing 0 damage, not not dealing damage, therefore it will still counts as did deal damage, therefore the affected unit will get poison.

2 brief examples:

Eg1: chojuro hits 3 puppets (all non water element). he didnt deal damage at all --> no poison tai (easy understanding)

Eg 2: chojuro hits 3 units on row 1, kills them all, and then move on to row 2 with 3 puppets (all non water element). Here, the system counts Chojuro as deals 0 damage to the puppets, not didnt deal damage at all, because he had killed 3 units before. so the puppets will get poisoned.

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Hope you enjoy my little speech ='')).




This post was last edited by YujinTakara on 2020-11-08 00:07:51.
  • Registered: 2017-07-24
  • Topics: 14
  • Posts: 167
On 2020-11-08 00:28:31Show this Author Only
3#

Yup, you are absolutly right. Your example with Chojuro is the reason why so many players are confused about why Poison Tai seems to work at at first but as they kill all units except the puppets somehow Poison Tai doesn't work for them anymore in the later rounds.

To clarify my definition of "causing" and receiving": What I meant by "causing" is that there are different kind of rules enforced like if it can control fail or not while "receiving" is more about if a certain condition is met or not (like if Fu Yamanaka's puppet has been hit with Ninjutsu damage, or if Tsunade has crit, or in the case of poison if any damage has been dealt or not).

Glad to see that there are others out there who know about this mechanic

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