Yeah but unlike Kakuzu and Kushina he can't heal himself which is annoying in the long run. If he wants to win against them, he gotta kill them fast

"Edo minato mystery is by default a bigger damage mystery than naruto's" irrelevant, I never argued on damage.

"Edo minato mystery is by default a bigger damage mystery than naruto's (even without breaks is a 150% stats one while naruto's is a 100% one) that delivers REPULSE (naruto's delivers knockdown, a difference as big as a mountain) and tag too on whoever is not immune to debuffs." Quoting this twice, cause it has 2 points. First, Minato can't chase his own mystery, Naruto can, also Naruto even gains leech off his chase, which can CC as well as remove buffs/shields on whatever on any ninja, as well as immobile any ninja who isn't immune.

"Once you break it you can choose between a 3 rounds version that cannot be dodged and that deals an additional 30% wind damage or a 2 rounds cd version that can be dodged and still has all the basic traits of the not broken one, besides the unmissable (but you can still easily select a clone or a weak ninja and obliterate whatever is behind it, due to repulse damage that still cannot be dodged)." Still can't CC, or even chase off his mystery or do what Naruto can provide.

"Unless the whole enemy team is immune to chases somehow with minato you c*ways select an enemy that doesn't dodge and trigger a combo that selfstacks atk and combo and that also lower the cd of the mystery." That would imply, you have the ability to chase off of Minato's Mystery.

"To do so with naruto (without getting any boost to your stats too) you need that your standard attack triggers the combo effect on a target (something that doesn't happen with 100% chance if the enemy combo rate is higher or comparable to naruto's or if is able to dodge it)." Most SoSP teams run Killer Bee 7 Sword, and they c*e standard to bait any dodges then mystery. (Only bad players use his mystery right away especially if there is a dodge ninja that will use its mystery, so you c*e it to start a CC.)

"So in what is minato y+1 mystery that may be dodged as much as naruto's comparable to naruto's?" Try this again in English as this is just a lot of words that say absolutely nothing.

"And no, removing from the game dodge or superarmor makes no sense, otherwise there would be no point in using ninjas that may ignore them and make their players pay a lot to get them." Your whole argument is "To make him a decent option again right now he needs to get sage naruto breaks on self giving chakra/debuff removal and on selfstacking atk/nin with chase and he needs to get a suppression superarmor/debuff immunity with his mystery or standard attack." Not every ninja needs to do these things such as remove super armor or debuff on immunity.

Also, apparently you forgotten when SoSP was meta, when people have complained CONSTANTLY that fights would last 10 rounds cause of P1 Naruto vs P1 Naruto.

Hahahah! This thread is about people who used and might still use Sosp aka cancer Naruto and who want him to be relevant again as he is getting shredded by Kushina,Kakuzu, Minato etc. He does not need BT. His kit is enough for his worth. I believe his days as a cancer p1 are over and should be left to rest in peace.

Even if you debate whether or not he will get BT, that is not your call, but CN's. So there's no need for yet another thread regarding this topic.

If you like him that much, which I doubt, as most of wanted winnable fights no matter how much time it required, you can still use him in a variety of teams, as a p2 or p3.

Meanwhile, people forget that Ronin Naruto is one of the best ninjas in the game.

People will continue to forget about it until he begins to appear in mega carnival at 2400 ingots.

That said, ronin naruto is very bad, tbh, once your move 2/3/4 aren't shenanigans, since he isn't immune to debuffs and doesn't selfheal.

Don't think about him only from the perspective of a low power player that meets a 700k whale with a 180k+ move 1 that uses him against you.

That same whale would destroy you in the same exact way (tbh better and faster) by using a full free option like chojuro full sb.

People will continue to forget about it until he begins to appear in mega carnival at 2400 ingots.

That said, ronin naruto is very bad, tbh, once your move 2/3/4 aren't shenanigans, since he isn't immune to debuffs and doesn't selfheal.

Don't think about him only from the perspective of a low power player that meets a 700k whale with a 180k+ move 1 that uses him against you.

That same whale would destroy you in the same exact way (tbh better and faster) by using a full free option like chojuro full sb.

He isn't solid at all.

His mystery damage output is average, his mystery and standard attack can be dodged and his dodge is just once per round.

His main two good sides: immunity to debuffs and selfhealing are made useless by the amount of eg kakuzu, kushina, minato edo breaks that polluted the game currently.

Basically, run him right now as a move 1 is impossible, it's just a decent move 2/3 ninja to add to your edo minato, edo hashi, water/wind main team.

To make him a decent option again right now he needs to get sage naruto breaks on self giving chakra/debuff removal and on selfstacking atk/nin with chase and he needs to get a suppression superarmor/debuff immunity with his mystery or standard attack.

Naruto can heal himself through Anbu Tactics from LM and be provided an immunity to debuffs through RoW and EM's Guidance, though he'd lose the leech, in which case, you could run standard Guy instead, but I rather run Bee + Hashirama combination over Guy.

Also, I don't know why you seem to think that Minato can chase off himself when he clearly can't.

"Ronin Naruto is very bad" LOL!!! Well then these move 2/3/4 must be super OP because I already defeated people with way more than 200k power than me with a regular Ronin Naruto team. Not just the move 3, 4 or 2. Nah the whole squad. Sure Ronin is weaker when you get rid of his buff but he remains a beast. Kakuzu, Kushina and edo Minato BT are the only one who can possibly defeat him because of their heal, defense buff for kakuzu, cc for Kushina and standard attack dodge for Minato. Even at that, it is arguable, since the only Kakuzu and Kushina that defeated me outside arena had always 70k and plus power than me, and even at that I defeated them sometimes. As for Minato bt, I can't say a lot about him since I didn't face any outside arena

I didn't say is bad. I say that is not that op when you meet somebody with comparable or higher power than yours that owns initiative over you.

If a full damage oriented ninja doesn't grant you a chance to win in this condition then is not an op ninja, but just a useful one.

Edo minato sb or kushina sb, instead, are good ninjas for this very reason.

Ronin naruto is good exclusively if you own initiative and if your move 1 secondary stats are so higher than the enemy move 2/3/4 stats that those moves are there just as a decoration (since they cannot control him, they cannot deny a devastating critical hit from him and so they are just there as food for his selfstacking passive).

It's a whale only gadget good exclusively for fast stomping streaks in swb that does literally nothing in a whale vs whale environment or in arena (where control fail doesn't exist, more or less).

In general there's literally close to no reason to choose him over full sb chojuro in every situation.

P. S.

Tbh to make ronin naruto useless it's enough a faster water main together with a round 1 buff cleaner.

Take the team renji suggested: ronin naruto, edo hashi full sb, mb, bee sst.

Against water main, normal han, wb asuma, gakido full sb (a full free team) where you don't own initiative.

Round 1 han clears buff with mystery, water main round comes first, your whole team but bee is chaosed (unless you select the y+2 passive of hashi, but if you do hashi won't clear the chaos on ronin naruto).

At that point what do you do?

Even if you are able to trigger hashi chase thanks to his mystery on water main, gakido will reduce again the cd on her if needed.

If instead of edo hashi, we talk about normal hashi that's there just to boost him is even better, for obvious reasons.

An hyper op on paper team, expensive as hell, that gets nullified by a full free team with 1 more point of initiative.

Indeed good this ronin naruto.

I didn't say is bad. I say that is not that op when you meet somebody with comparable or higher power than yours that owns initiative over you.

If a full damage oriented ninja doesn't grant you a chance to win in this condition then is not an op ninja, but just a useful one.

Edo minato sb or kushina sb, instead, are good ninjas for this very reason.

Ronin naruto is good exclusively if you own initiative and if your move 1 secondary stats are so higher than the enemy move 2/3/4 stats that those moves are there just as a decoration (since they cannot control him, they cannot deny a devastating critical hit from him and so they are just there as food for his selfstacking passive).

It's a whale only gadget good exclusively for fast stomping streaks in swb that does literally nothing in a whale vs whale environment or in arena (where control fail doesn't exist, more or less).

In general there's literally close to no reason to choose him over full sb chojuro in every situation.

P. S.

Tbh to make ronin naruto useless it's enough a faster water main together with a round 1 buff cleaner.

Take the team renji suggested: ronin naruto, edo hashi full sb, mb, bee sst.

Against water main, normal han, wb asuma, gakido full sb (a full free team) where you don't own initiative.

Round 1 han clears buff with mystery, water main round comes first, your whole team but bee is chaosed (unless you select the y+2 passive of hashi, but if you do hashi won't clear the chaos on ronin naruto).

At that point what do you do?

Even if you are able to trigger hashi chase thanks to his mystery on water main, gakido will reduce again the cd on her if needed.

If instead of edo hashi, we talk about normal hashi that's there just to boost him is even better, for obvious reasons.

An hyper op on paper team, expensive as hell, that gets nullified by a full free team with 1 more point of initiative.

Indeed good this ronin naruto.

I don't get it. Are you using Water main's punch skill or shark? Because if you're using shark, then most likely every ninja is going to be killed by Ronin Naruto round 1. Also, best Ronin Naruto team in my opinion is LM, edo Itachi and bee. The water team you just mentionned can't possibly beat a Ronin team with edo Itachi even If I don't use the dream debuff. Also you're saying that Ronin Naruto can't beat people with comparable power or more power but I already told you that I've beaten lot of meta ninja (Kakuzu, Kuhina...) who has way more power than me with my regular Ronin team.

Have you ever tried Ronin Naruto or are you just basing yourself off hypothesis? You can watch Youtube videos of him and you'll see that he already defeated Kakuzus with more than 200k power difference.

I got rid of the pictures for the opponent's privacy but I did defeat someone with twice my power level with Ronin Naruto.

"Ronin Naruto is very bad" LOL!!! Well then these move 2/3/4 must be super OP because I already defeated people with way more than 200k power than me with a regular Ronin Naruto team. Not just the move 3, 4 or 2. Nah the whole squad. Sure Ronin is weaker when you get rid of his buff but he remains a beast. Kakuzu, Kushina and edo Minato BT are the only one who can possibly defeat him because of their heal, defense buff for kakuzu, cc for Kushina and standard attack dodge for Minato. Even at that, it is arguable, since the only Kakuzu and Kushina that defeated me outside arena had always 70k and plus power than me, and even at that I defeated them sometimes. As for Minato bt, I can't say a lot about him since I didn't face any outside arena

O-o you got the wrong Hashirama in mind, Hashirama First Hokage is in the team, not Edo.

They just need to own secondary stats high enough to not take for granted that every attack they endure is a critical hit with a so high injury boost that destroy them in one shot or to not take for granted that whatever control skill you use will fail always.

Obviously if you face a team 200k stronger that yours where your move 1 is 200k and your move 2/3/4 is 70k while his one are 180k in 1 and 140k in 2/3/4 it's quite normal you win, since the match is actually your 200k move 1 vs his 180k move 1 even if he owns 200k more total power than you.

Nah every one is going for position 1 meta and my move 1 had 90k power while i don't remember his but it was way over 90k. Ronin Naruto does over 5k damage with his standard without crit. Add bee and he gets 3 standard in a row. That's more than 15k damage a round since his attack increase by 5% for every standard and chase he has. And whenever he kill other positions, clones or summons he gets an additionnal standard.

You say they just need to have secondary stats high enough but that is almost impossible. The guys who had more than 200k than me, his position 2 had more power than my position 1 as for position 3 and 4, they were pretty close to my position 1. But, their secondary stat were way below mine. They only had higher base stat. That's because it's easier to build base stat than secondary stat on the other position(refine, charm, rune stone... harder to farm for each and every position...). So unless you have 30k power and your opponent has 100k, it's almost impossible that they have higher secondary stats.

Now you say Ronin Naruto is bad, yet I showed you that he can defeat opponent with 200k more power. Show me one of your ninja you're so sure they are OP defeating opponent with more than 200k power.

That's the reason why here costs an eye of your head while in cn costs 2400 ingots.

Because here the amount of 700k+ people with high secondary stats in move 2-4 is low and because edo hashirama breaks are more expensive than ronin naruto itself, so running a team with edo minato and edo hashi both broken to get weakening effects is almost impossible to see.

The real reason why ronin naruto is currently considered op is because oasis did everything that was in their power to make impossibile or more expensive than him to run teams that counter it (who is so mad tu run shark bomb teams or heavy shielding teams currently since they give no advantage in swb?).

P.S. What team are you currently using with him?

Anyways to go back to the point of the thread.

Naruto sosp needs breaks, indeed.

Sasuke rs got them and they made him extremely good i don't see the reason why naruto shouldn't get them.

I'll chime in and say Naruto [Ronin] is very, very overrated. He was good back then when we had the old control formula and no counters (Edo Minato's Enfeeble). Nowadays, it's really easy to beat him due to the new control formula which renders the control stat useless as every ninja will have at least a 25% chance of landing a control even if the control stat difference is 10k>

For GNW he's even more unreliable, unless you're fighting really low bp players with no chance to counter him. Massive Shields without any clone will easily counter him and if you try to run along with a Shield/Buffs removal ninja (Han, 5KM, ETR Madara) just so you don't have to deal with the shields, you'll leave him unprotected and without any buffs other than the permanent buffs.

I'll leave this as a proof btw. He's a very unreliable and weak ninja in high bp fights. Just for the record, my partner's BP is 570k while mine is 420k