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[ Player Guide ] Secondary Stats [Substats] Discussion

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  • Registered: 2017-07-24
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On 2018-02-28 00:07:14Show this Author OnlyDescending Order
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Hey guys !


Let's talk about Substats/Secondary Stats a bit, I'm referring to these:

Screenshot_3

I'll dwell into these 3 topics.

Are they important? What do they do? How to improve them?



Are they important?


First of, they are extremely important.

Even more important that the primary stats themselves in most of cases which is why a lot of players prioritize focusing on Refines, Cave Keys rather than focusing on Magatamas, Tactics.

Which doesn't mean that you should neglect primary stats but it does mean that you should focus on the secondary ones as much as you can.

Overall you can consider the Intiative, Critical and Injury most important stats out of all 5 (Control can be highly useful also in some scenarios, I'll explain more about it below)


Why do people stack position 1 ninjas so much? It's mostly due to these secondary stats especially critical/injury

The difference in critical/injury with your position 1 ninja vs your enemy ninjas can be huge and the higher the difference of stats is the higher your critical chance and critical damage shall be but we'll talk more about this in the next category.



What do they do?



Initiative = if your ninja has higher initiative than your enemy same position(move) ninja then your ninja will go first (I am saying this because you gotta know the meaning of positions in team, if your Pos2 ninja has 10000 initiative it will still go after enemy Pos1 ninja who has 5000 initiative)


Initiative is very tricky but most of the time you will benefit from being faster than your enemy (makes for interrupting, immobiling , chaosing your enemy and dealing damage first)

Your auto-barrier depends on your entire team initiative (so pos1+pos2+pos3+pos4 initiative = overall initiative which is compared vs your enemy and who has higher overall initiative will win the barrier)

There is also an interesting rule that your Position 2 ninja will be faster than your/enemies Position 1 if it has 10000 MORE initiative (example: Position 2= 15000 , Position 1= 4999 , Pos2 goes before Pos1)

(This rule also applies for Pos3>Pos2 and Pos4>Pos3, the rule for Pos3>Pos1 = 20000 more initiative but that is impossible for us to achieve)




Critical = Increases %chance of Critical, decreases the %chances of receiving a critical from your enemy (this all depends on your own ninja critical vs your enemy ninja critical)


This stats is very important for all ninjas also, especially for your main damage dealer which is mostly Pos1 ninja as it will make him crit much more often and we all know critical damage is much higher than normal one.

Critical damage has nothing to do with "Critical" stats, it depends on Injury which we will talk about next!




Injury = Increases CRITICAL DAMAGE, decreases the critical damage taken from your enemy. (same as critical also depends on your ninja injury vs enemy ninja injury)


You see the massive criticals a higher power can deal to you ? Especially if they have a very stacked Position 1 ninja means they have very high Injury stats.

Injury helps with damage a lot, especially considering that enemy back row ninjas mostly have low injuries therefore you can do massive critical damage to them.

Some testing with Injury by people turns out that "Every 100 injury difference vs your enemy is 1% more critical damage" (Not official info)

However based on this info we can say that "If you have 10000 injury on a ninja vs 5000 enemy injury you will do 50% more critical damage than you're supposed to" (which are quite high numbers actually taking into account that the 50% is calculated at the end of damage formula making it a big difference)



Combo = Increases chances of combo, decreases chances of receiving a combo (This refers mostly to standard attacks, sadly this stats is useless when it comes to mysteries and the "must combo" standard attack)


This stats personally I find the one that you can neglect the most except in some cases (for example: Jonin Minato, Kurama Naruto = ninjas who depend a lot on their standard attack causing a combo due to cooldown reduction so it can be very useful for them)

Overall it doesn't have many uses as Critical/Injury do which is why the stats doesn't have as much significance.




Control = Increases %chance of Controlling, decreases %chance of getting controlled (Refers to debuffs such as Immobile, Chaos, Sleep, Acupuncture)


This stats can be extremely useful if you don't have a healer/debuff remover in a team and you are not immune (Example: Classic Lightning Main blitz team)

Also can be extremely useful for helping you control (Example: using Masked Man / Susano Itachi this stat is a must)

Negative side: useless on some ninjas (Example: Roshi, Utakata, 6 Tails Naruto) (There is new Kushina now to immobile them but they regain immunity in round 2 anyway so control can only reduce small chance of them being immobile if versus Kushina)


By player info the rule for this stat is "Every 1000 control stat difference = 10%"

Which means if your ninja has 15000 and your enemy 4999 it will be practically impossible for him to control you.




How to improve them?


Pretty much any power resource is improving them:

-Refines (All stat - only 1 ninja)

-Purify (All stat - only 1 ninja)

-8 Gates (All stat - only 1 ninja)

-Ninja Tools (All except Initiative - all ninjas)

-Mount Myoboku Cultivation (All stats - all ninjas)

-Summon Cultivation (All stats - all ninjas)

-Battle Armor Rank (All stats - all ninjas)

-Clothings (All ninjas)

-Treasured Tools (only 3 Secondary Stats - 1 ninja)

-Charms (Depends on Cave Runes, All stat - 1 ninja)

-Cave Runes (All stat - 1 ninja)

-Bond Home system (All stats - all ninja)


Out of all these, if you want to focus primarily on improving position 1 ninja I'd highly recommend to upgrade Cave Runes/ Charm / Refine / Purify / Treasure Tool.




This post was last edited by ICExx on 2018-02-28 00:07:14.
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On 2018-02-25 00:47:08Show this Author Only
2#

Great guide ice ice baby!

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On 2018-02-25 03:34:20Show this Author Only
3#
  • sk1ba On 2018-02-25 00:47:08
  • Great guide ice ice baby!

ty !

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On 2018-02-25 09:05:57Show this Author Only
4#

Seems to me right to add some clarifications to what was said here.


What actually those secondary stats do?


Initiative: nothing to add here to what icex said.


Control: if you and your enemy own 0 control stats, and this is what happens in arena, then you own a 5% chance to fail in controlling your enemy (so to apply to it blind, sleep, chaos, immobile, acupuncture effects).

Control secondary stat actually modify this basic chance by 1% every 100 points of difference between the stat owned by the ninja that deliver the controlling effect and the ninja that suffers it.

So if your ninja owns, lets say, 2000 control and the targeted ninja owns 8000 control, then your chance to fail in applying the negative effect is 5% + 60% = 65%.

So if you own 11000 more control than your enemy is sure the enemy can't control you? No, because this chance is capped at 95% (and, in the opposite case, at 5%).

Little supplement: if my ninja is immune to debuffs and doesn't deliver any controlling effect (example Utakata) is Control Stat for me useless?

No, because if a controlling effect is delivered by a CHASE and the enemy control fails on your ninja then your mystery DOES NOT GET INTERRUPTED if could be interrupted by it.


Combo: if you and your enemy own 0 combo stats, and this is what happens in arena, then, unless stated differently by the specific standard attack description, you own a 15% chance to apply the secondary effects of a standard attack.

What are the secondary effects of a standard attack? Every effect that is not the pure damage. Example for Gaara standard attack are to deliver High Float and to self shield. For Water Style - Water Whip are to deliver Knockdown and to apply Acupuncture.

Combo secondary stat actually modify this basic chance by 1% every 100 points of difference between the stat owned by the ninja that deliver the standard attack and the ninja that suffers it.

So if your ninja owns, lets say, 2000 combo and the targeted ninja owns 6000 combo, then your chance to apply the secondary effects of your standard attack is 15% + 40% = 55%.

So if you own enough combo secondary stat is sure the enemy cannot apply the secondary effects of his standard attack on you?

As for Control stat also here the chance is capped at 95% (and, in the opposite case at 5%).

Little supplement 1: if the difference between your combo stat and the enemy stat is higher than 100% then also limited to standard attacks evasion skills (like han's or hinata's) begin to fail.

Little supplement 2: if a ninja owns a standard attack that says: '... and have a chance to deliver x combo' (like for example Utakata standard attack) the difference in combo stat between the attacking ninja and the defending ninja also modifies the chance for the best outcome to happen. In Utakata case, for example, his standard attack can land or 6 or 8 or 10 combos. The higher your combo stat in comparison with the defending ninja is and the lower is the chance Utakata does land 6 combos.

Little supplement 3: when in the description of the standard attack is said: 'a fixed chance' then that basic chance is not 15% but 30%, when in the description is said: 'an high chance' then that basic chance is not 15% but 75% and in this specific case there's no cap at 95%.


Critical: if you and your enemy own 0 critical stats, and this is what happens in arena, then you own a 15% chance to land a critical hit on your enemy.

Critical secondary stat actually modify this basic chance by 1% every 100 points of difference between the stat owned by the ninja that deliver the attack/mystery and the ninja that suffers it.

So if your ninja owns, lets say, 10000 critical and the targeted ninja owns 6000 critical, then your chance to land a critical hit is 15% + 40% = 55%.

So if you own enough critical secondary stat is sure that every attack you land is a critical hit?

No, also in this case the chance is capped at 95% and at 5% in the opposite case.


Injury: nothing to add to what ICEx said except that the increase of the critical damage landed is always ROUNDED DOWN, so if the difference in injury stat between you and your enemy is 299 then you get +2% (and not +2,99%), if is 425 then you get +4% (and not +4,25%).


Ending note: what I said before applies in those terms ONLY if yours and the enemy level is the same.

A level difference between a ninja and another ninja actually widens the basic chances i talked about.

By how much per level is hard to say, but level indeed plays a role there (Ninja exams ring a bell there to you all, i'm sure).

So if you own a lower level than your enemy you need also to overcome the malus granted by the difference in level by adding secondary stats.




This post was last edited by Garv on 2018-02-25 10:37:21.
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On 2018-02-27 18:12:30Show this Author Only
5#
Note: This post has been filtered by Jori. (Administrator)
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On 2018-02-27 21:27:18Show this Author Only
6#

Regarding control, there are some skills and auto that have 100% chance to proc the desired status.

i.e. Itachi auto (normal itachi) has 100% chance to cause sleeping in pvp, even if you are level one and your opponent is Kozo.

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On 2018-02-27 22:03:37Show this Author Only
7#

thats 3 topics.

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On 2018-02-28 00:05:18Show this Author Only
8#

Where did you get the info Garv ?

Sounds realistic though thanks for the input

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On 2018-02-28 00:06:26Show this Author Only
9#
  • lexsan On 2018-02-27 22:03:37
  • thats 3 topics.

I originally planned it to be 4 but reduced to 3, therefore I forgot to edit that part haha


Will edit now


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On 2018-02-28 16:55:55Show this Author Only
10#
  • Shryke On 2018-02-27 21:27:18
  • Regarding control, there are some skills and auto that have 100% chance to proc the desired status.

    i.e. Itachi auto (normal itachi) has 100% chance to cause sleeping in pvp, even if you are level one and your opponent is Kozo.

Note: This post has been filtered by Jori. (Administrator)
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On 2018-02-28 21:02:57Show this Author Only
11#

How about resistances, damage reduction and *ions?

Would be nice if we can find if it's worth removing everything for the sake of resistances.

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On 2018-02-28 21:13:54Show this Author Only
12#
Note: This post has been filtered by Jori. (Administrator)
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On 2018-03-01 17:28:57Show this Author Only
13#

Wtf are those stats :D 19k? o.O that's like 50k dollar on ninja :D my 20 years salary :(

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On 2018-03-01 22:55:31Show this Author Only
14#

ICE*, thanks for the guide...it helped me refine my strategy a little.

Although Scarlett discussed the varying relevance of Damage Reduction and the Pen3trations, I'm trying to get a handle on the un-discussed stats' relative priority.

More specifically, where on the scale of importance, would you place Life Recovery? (i'm guessing just beneath Combo, but the 'ideal' keeps fluctuating, hehe)


Also, you advised us not to neglect our primary stat development....but with consideration to the limited availability of secondary stat boosting options...given the opportunity and generally speaking... should we prioritize Initiative, Critical, and Injury above primary stats?

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On 2018-03-02 00:54:40Show this Author Only
15#
  • Feral Shade On 2018-03-01 22:55:31
  • ICE*, thanks for the guide...it helped me refine my strategy a little.

    Although Scarlett discussed the varying relevance of Damage Reduction and the Pen3trations, I'm trying to get a handle on the un-discussed stats' relative priority.

    More specifically, where on the scale of importance, would you place Life Recovery? (i'm guessing just beneath Combo, but the 'ideal' keeps fluctuating, hehe)


    Also, you advised us not to neglect our primary stat development....but with consideration to the limited availability of secondary stat boosting options...given the opportunity and generally speaking... should we prioritize Initiative, Critical, and Injury above primary stats?

Didn't say to neglect them , but yes I did say to prioritize Initiative/critical/injury higher , especially if position 1 ninja (main damage dealer)


And about Life Recovery honestly I'd rate it at the bottom out of all stats, the only thing is does is "recover hp at the start of round" and it's barely even noticeable because the recovery is in small numbers.

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On 2018-03-03 06:55:00Show this Author Only
16#
  • ICExx On 2018-03-02 00:54:40
  • Didn't say to neglect them , but yes I did say to prioritize Initiative/critical/injury higher , especially if position 1 ninja (main damage dealer)


    And about Life Recovery honestly I'd rate it at the bottom out of all stats, the only thing is does is "recover hp at the start of round" and it's barely even noticeable because the recovery is in small numbers.

Thank you very much for the clarification. ^_^

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On 2018-03-04 04:00:11Show this Author Only
17#
  • Feral Shade On 2018-03-03 06:55:00
  • Thank you very much for the clarification. ^_^

you could stack life recovery only if you are able to stack over 800 of it and only in a full healing setup, like the triple healing team with sailor sakura, azure fang and hokage tsunade + 1 tank (life recovery stat gets multiplied by healing tips).

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On 2018-05-10 17:53:17Show this Author Only
18#

Gpt a question tho...Does Sasuke Susanoo get anything from Injury?
Like, his ult, clearly states that he does critical damage with 1.5x normal damage, would 1.000 injury difference, make that 1.6x normal damage?

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On 2018-05-10 19:48:26Show this Author Only
19#
  • DrDoo On 2018-05-10 17:53:17
  • Gpt a question tho...Does Sasuke Susanoo get anything from Injury?
    Like, his ult, clearly states that he does critical damage with 1.5x normal damage, would 1.000 injury difference, make that 1.6x normal damage?

Of course he does, it will be higher damage the higher injury difference same as all other ninjas

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On 2018-05-10 23:46:05Show this Author Only
20#

Does crit or combo affect the chance of triggering a 20% shield with Earth main standard, or a double heal by Water main standard?

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